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Pricing and Positioning a New Product with Dave Baldwin


In today’s episode, not only are you going to meet a dear friend of mine but you will also get to hear us work on his business together and get an amazing new course ready to launch. This episode, I’ve got my coaching hat on and together, Dave and I iron out some pain points regarding pricing and we really dig into the nitty gritty of the amazing ideas he’s got. I know that after today’s conversation, we’re both clear on what Dave’s goals are, what products he is passionate about, and the price points for a clear target audience.


Dave Baldwin is one of the most heart-centered and smart people I’ve ever met, and I know you will resonate with him. As a listener of She Sells Radio, for you, it’s not just about the money. It’s about the AND – creating abundance for yourself and your family, while also living out your life’s purpose and serving people in a big way. 


So listen in on what Dave is creating and as we work through any challenges that are coming up to arrive at a really great mapped out plan for him and his course launch.


Show Notes:

[2:21] – Dave describes his business and what his online course will be about.

[4:09] – Start with your why. Dave shares the “why” behind the course launch.

[6:04] – While not everyone is driven to be an entrepreneur and may be better suited for the corporate world, working in alignment is crucial.

[7:50] – Dave begins with ideas on pricing and structure for the course and what tricky parts he’s running into.

[9:41] – Dave outlines his ideas on pricing, offerings, and requirements.

[11:29] – The goal of a six session process is to help a coach overcome unconscious competence.

[12:49] – If you’re launching something new, you must have a checklist of the qualities of your target.

[15:02] – Pricing is all about alignment.

[16:13] – To Elyse, the amount Dave is charging feels low, but it is in alignment for Dave.

[18:48] – Making his courses easily accessible is important.

[20:40] – Elyse brings some components to the table regarding pricing and subscription averages.

[22:20] – What strategic decisions go into pricing?

[24:35] – When pricing, we want to think about value.

[26:37] – Dave shares what he wants to become clearer on with his higher ticket offerings.

[28:12] – Elyse shares her opinion and experience as a coach herself.

[30:22] – There is a viable target audience for what Dave wants to provide.

[31:58] – There are a lot of elements to scaling a business. 

[33:26] – Everything can be learned if you are driven to learn it.

[35:27] – Dave describes the process of his product development.

[37:14] – One personal dilemma that Dave has experienced regarding fully creating course content for a client, is that he wouldn’t want to put in the work and not own it.

[39:17] – If it sounds like something you just absolutely do not want to do or know that it will take your time and energy away, put the idea aside for now.

[41:10] – Elyse shares her current (at the time of recording) pricing on sessions.

[43:08] – If you like what Dave is offering, get in on the ground floor before prices are raised through growth.

Connect with Dave Baldwin:


Escape 8 to 5 Course

Links and Resources:

Instagram  |  LinkedIn  |  YouTube

She Sells with Elyse Archer Home Page


Speaker 1 (00:02):

Welcome to she sells radio. I am so excited for today’s conversation because not only are you gonna meet a dear friend of mine, but you’re also gonna get to hear us work on his business together and map out a plan for a really incredible new online course that he’s launching. And I’ll let Dave introduce himself to you a little bit more in just a moment, but for context, I do wanna let you know, before we get into this, Dave is one of the most heart centered and smartest people I’ve ever been privileged to meet. And I know you’re gonna resonate with him too, because I know for you, this isn’t just about the money. Yes. It’s about abundance in all areas of your life. And you know, we’re all about that here on. She sells radio, but it’s also about living out your life’s full purpose and serving people in a big way. And that’s what Dave is all about too. So we’re gonna dive into what Dave is creating work through any challenges that are coming up and then hopefully arrive at a really great plan for him with his course launch. So Dave Baldwin welcome to she sells radio. We are so excited to have you here.

Speaker 2 (01:04):

Thank you, Elise. And I’m so glad to be here. Yeah, it’s it is like you said, it’s really an honor to get to be on this show and just think about how many different things we’ve seen each other go through over the years. And it’s, it’s been a really a fun process to come and get to be part of this. Yeah. But, uh, just for everybody out there, if we haven’t met, my name is Dave Baldwin. My company is Baldwin systems and currently I am working on a course. It’s a self-paced course called the, the escape eight to five course as its name suggests designed for folks that are in eight to five type jobs that would rather be doing something else. And I’m excited to really roll this out. And, uh, I’ll definitely begin into more about that, uh, today, but people ask me a lot of times, what’s your background and what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:48):

And I say, well, pull up a chair. It may take a while, cause I’ve done a whole bunch of different things. And, and, and so part of, uh, what my thought process with putting this course together is for people kind of like me that have a lot of different ideas that they wanna work on. A lot of times what I’ve had to learn over the years is how to learn, how to create that practical grounding and develop the financial means necessary to, to make a lot of these ideas practical and, and work and actually work in reality. And, uh, so I’m really excited to share that with the world.

Speaker 1 (02:17):

Yeah, absolutely. Now it’s gonna be amazing and we’ll get into in just a moment, you know, some of the more tactical questions on launching and wherever, you know, wherever I can help you. But I think I always love starting with, people’s why I think that’s so powerful. I think for any of us who are entrepreneurs or in sales, it’s like we have raised our hands and chosen what can be on some days pure hell <laugh>, we’re just calling it what it is, right. It doesn’t matter how passionate you are. It doesn’t matter how committed you are. There are days that weed out the strong from the week in, in this field. And I think going back to our why, and going back to what we’re passionate about, at least for me, is the thing that drives me. And I think it would just be really helpful for our audience. Who’s getting to know you and is gonna kind of go on this journey with you of what does it look like to shape up and launch this course? Like, what is the why behind this for you? Why is this something you’re so passionate about?

Speaker 2 (03:11):

Yes, thank you least. I mean, really for me that the why is about freedom, but in a specific sense, I mean, freedom to be the authentic self freedom to, to go. And, and that’s what I really wanna share the wor with the world is that the, a lot of the, the things that we get into the patterns we get locked in in a, in a traditional job type of setting, you know, it, it almost becomes impossible to really be yourself because of the contracts that you’re under because of the, the restrictions and the rules that you have to follow. But I think in a more subtle way, I, I see that workplaces condition, people with a lot of negative programming and it’s, it’s almost impossible to get out of while you’re showing up and spending the majority of your time in the same environment every day.

Speaker 2 (03:54):

I won’t say it’s impossible. I mean, if you have a high enough skill level, you can go into any environment and have, you know, show up as your authentic self. But I would, I, I think that for a lot of people that are, if, if the eight to five world is where you’ve spent your whole life and you’re in a job and you’re, you’re unhappy and your job, you know, you’re, you’re not crazy that there’s a lot of people that are, that are, it’s just not a healthy environment to be in. And I think I, having spent a lot of, of my life in unhealthy environments, my big, why is I wanna be able to help create a world where, you know, kids come outta college and they don’t have to go spend, you know, 10, 20 years working at a job that they don’t like just to pay the bills every day. I want to, you create a world where people can go and do their best and highest and most impactful work and, and not have to be just running on a treadmill for a paycheck. I, I don’t think that needs to be the norm for anybody. And, and that’s, that’s really the why that drives me in this whole process.

Speaker 1 (04:49):

Mm. I love that. I love that. And one of the things I always say, cuz we, we have such a diverse group of listeners here. We have a ton of entrepreneurs. We have aspiring entrepreneurs, we’ve got corporate listeners. And I always, I, I think it’s like, this is just my personal take. Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur necessarily. This is again my per at least it’s personal belief system. There are some situations where it really is better for people to be in corporate. But in that instance, to me, it’s the alignment piece is so important. And that’s that alignment piece is important for those of us who are more wired as entrepreneurs, where your working environment, whatever that is for you, if it’s not an alignment with what lights you up to your point, like feeling like you can really be yourself, which I get messages from a ton of people, um, you know, all throughout the week of like, I don’t feel like I can be myself and speak my truth and like live out my most fulfilled, authentic life in the role that I’m in right now. Like it is time for a change. And so I think for today, you know, it should be hopefully really interesting for people not just to kind of hear, okay, how do we work on maybe some of the tactical elements of structuring this and pricing it and go to market strategy, but then also like hearing from you, just your passion for helping people get into alignment with an environment that’s really suited to them that helps them have freedom that helps them have purpose. So this is gonna be awesome. So you ready to dive in?

Speaker 2 (06:13):

I’m ready.

Speaker 1 (06:13):

Okay. So we’re gonna just have what I would do in a normal coaching conversation. I’d love to hear from you Dave. Like what, what challenges are you bumping up against? What questions can I help with? This is really our time to work on whatever aspect of the course you wanna work on together.

Speaker 2 (06:31):

So I think right now I am at the point in the development of my course, admittedly, fairly early. So I’m just kind of figuring out a lot of these early stage questions. One of the things I’ve been thinking about is the pricing and the offers that had had to actually structure the pricing and the offers because essentially this, this is intended to be a self-service product and the, the only live interaction with me, that’s gonna be available. Essentially what I have figured out’s gonna be $19 a month would be the base subscription to get into a community. And I’m gonna do Q and a calls, but I’m not gonna be doing any kind of coaching or anything like that. It’s gonna be more of just giving people an opportunity to share what questions they still have, that the current course material doesn’t answer. And part of what that’s gonna do is it’s gonna help me figure out what else do I need to create potentially additional videos, additional processes for, and it’s also gonna give people an opportunity to meet each other, interact with each other in a life type of a setting.

Speaker 2 (07:26):

Now I’ve been thinking about what would higher tier offerings potentially look like? Mm-hmm, <affirmative> the tricky part for me is I’m not looking to be in the coaching business. I’ve had a number of people tell me I should do coaching. I really just don’t, that’s not where I want to go with this. But what I would consider doing would be working behind the scenes with coaches who want to, you know, so one, one of the things I talked about on my website is how building courses is, is gonna be a big part of this. So what I’m thinking about is could I do maybe some highly specialized in selective type of coaching, only for people that meet the criteria mm-hmm <affirmative>, but the, the other, the other piece here is I don’t really wanna be working with one client for the long term. It would be, I would be more interested in working for maybe a handful of sessions with one client and that’s it.

Speaker 2 (08:15):

Then I move on to the next one, uh, because I just really feel like that’s, it’s, it’s gonna help. It’s gonna be mutually beneficial that way. I find it with a, just with my personality and what, where I do my best work. It it’s with new people for a short period of time. And I think it’ll also help me develop a better course if I can expose the material to reality with a lot of different people. And so I’m trying to figure out where to, to, you know, it’s essentially the couple of price points I have just that I’m playing around with. One is I’m thinking about doing a, uh, a $1,500, six consulting session package. Mm-hmm <affirmative> again, that would only be offered to somebody. The, the requirements I’ve mapped out here would be, they have to be in the coaching business. Uh, I’m not looking to work.

Speaker 2 (09:00):

I wouldn’t be looking to be hired by somebody that says, I’m trying to get outta my job. Can I, can I hire you to coach me through it? I’m gonna say, no, go take my program. And that’s, that’s just gonna be a standalone thing. Of course, I would love it. If a co if a coach joins my program and maybe they wanna hire that person to coach them through that, that then that’s another story, but mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I think so the requirements would be, it needs to be somebody, a coach. Who’s not, they do coaching. They need to be established in their business. Not somebody who’s brand new, just starting out and decided to be a coach last week, but somebody’s been doing it for a while. Somebody who is actively interested in creating a, a product or a course, kinda like what mine is, and, you know, has a desire for scalable income, not, not somebody that is comfortable where they are with no desire to scale, but, but there’s gotta be, they wanna be making exponentially more than they are now.

Speaker 2 (09:50):

Cause otherwise they’re just not gonna be invested in a process like what I would, would guide them through. And ultimately there’s a couple of others that are not requirements, but they’re soft pluses. One would be a timeline for an exit strategy already defined, like, do they know when they wanna exit from their business? Are they doing coaching exclusively full time and making a living primarily from their coaching income? That’s a big plus not absolutely required, but, but that’s definitely a good thing. Do they have a daily execution framework in place? Do they, do they actually write out and map out their daily plan and have that discipline in place? That’s a, that’s a big plus, but not required. So those are just a few things. And you know, I think the last thing I’ll share on this, this price point here that I think is pertinent is that my, my goal of a six session process would be to help a coach overcome the problem of what I call unconscious competence mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (10:41):

And I think this is the biggest issue for, for any coach of any kind anywhere is that they don’t know what they know they’ve, they’ve gotten so good at what they do, that they don’t talk about it anymore because it’s second nature. And so their clients actually struggle because they only, they only tell them about, you know, 10 to 20% of the steps involved and their clients try to struggle with the other 80%. But to the coach, there’s this big, massive blind spot. And my process is designed to fill that gap and help the coach realize, oh yeah, there’s all these other things I just do constantly. And I stopped thinking about them 10 years ago because I’ve been doing ’em this whole time. So that’s, that’s really the, the, you know, and, and then there’s a $4,500 price point I’m playing with, but I, I, we can go into that later if we need to, but that’s okay. I’m trying to figure out what would be the best way to map out those prices and offers mm-hmm <affirmative> so,

Speaker 1 (11:32):

Okay, awesome. Awesome. Can I have some clarifying questions? Sure, absolutely. Okay, perfect. Okay. So quick question, just clarifying the 1,506 consulting session package, this, and one of the things that you did well here that I want everyone to really hone in on is being very clear on who’s your avatar for this, right? So it’s like if you’re launching something new and you don’t yet have a client requirement checklist of these are the, the things that have to be a yes, for me in order to take on a client, go make that right now. <laugh> otherwise it gets, it gets hairy. It gets complicated. So I love that you have that. Here’s my question. I got confused when you said it’s a plus, if they’re doing coaching exclusively for their income, but if they’re enrolled in your course, wouldn’t they still have an eight to five, or am I missing a piece there?

Speaker 2 (12:22):

Thank you. Yes, I, and, and, and it’s completely my fault that you’re missing a piece, cause I didn’t talk about it here. So I’m, so I’m actually not talking about them signing up to be a member of the course. So here’s, here’s the missing piece is this course is actually my showroom course, as I think of it, because part of what I wanted, like I’m gonna actually roll out additional courses and build additional businesses out of each one. And essentially part of what I wanna do is help coaches in the skill of creating courses. And for me, I need a credibility piece. I need to have my own course sitting here to be able to say, here’s a course that I built. And if you wanna build a course like this, then that’s where that training comes in.

Speaker 1 (13:00):

Got it. So this is kind of, it’s separate it. It’s this

Speaker 2 (13:03):

Is separate. This is under the umbrella of my main company. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:06):

Got it. Okay. Okay. So which would you, where do you wanna start? And you wanna start on mapping out? Cause it sounds like we’re really mapping out kind of pricing tiers and structures for really it’s, it’s a couple new initiatives that you’re rolling out if I’m understanding correctly, right? Yes. You’ve not your course that you’re launching. And then yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:28):

And, and, and I think the course, the eight to five escape course I’m, I don’t think I’m gonna, I don’t think there’s gonna be any additional price points for that course specifically. Okay. I’m looking at that as that’s just gonna be a straight $19 a month subscription, the additional price points I referenced in the beginning would be part of my main company. So, okay. If you, if you have other recommendations, I’m, I’m open to anything you might suggest on that.

Speaker 1 (13:49):

Sure. So I think the only, and when you and I were chatting about this before we talked about this, and I know you said you were feeling good about the 19 a month, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> is that so, so I’m just gonna do a little disclaimer for everyone listening, but I think it’s all about to me, pricing is all about alignment and it’s about, I think in general, we want to be able to say confidently that people are gonna receive at least 10 times the value of what the price point is of anything we’re putting out there. And so when you’re looking at pricing, something, being able to kind of break it down and say, okay, they’re getting this right. And a lot of times to your point, Dave, of what you said, if we undervalue the things that we just kind of take for granted in our knowledge, whether you’re a core a, a, uh, coach, whether you are any sort of thought leader.

Speaker 1 (14:35):

A lot of times we forget about all these things we bring to the table for our clients. And we do that too. When we’re pricing out courses, we forget, Hey, there’s separate value in. If they get, you know, access to all the calls, if they get access, if there’s any sort of downloads or PDFs, if, if there’s any sort of group calls with you, right. And like actually mapping out, what’s the value of each of those things and being able to say with integrity, this is at least again, 10 X is the benchmark I use. I always like to have at least 10 X, if not more in terms of value they’re getting. Um, but then I often find too that people undervalue. So we talked about, I think I just need to give this as a disclaimer. Um, is that, to me 19 feels so low it, but it feel, but I know like we’ve talked about this before and it’s a big part of it is alignment and it’s what feels good to you.

Speaker 1 (15:25):

And if that feels good to you do it, if someone said, I wanna, you know, I’m gonna build my empire this way and it’s gonna take three months and I don’t have a huge audience that I’m gonna charge $19 a month. I’d say we gotta either get you way bigger audience, or we gotta charge more. Right. But I have launched things that low to start and kind of figured it out. And, you know, having been someone who started there, I look back and I’m like, okay. I was really under charging when I was charging at that level. <laugh> but it helped me kind of figure out what I was doing. And so I just wanted to say that because, um, I think it’s important that you also get paid what you’re worth in this. Right. But it’s like if the 19 a month feels good to you and that’s, and that’s feeling right, and feeling in alignment, let’s roll with it because you know, that’s not gonna be your big money maker, at least not to start. Right. Like, we’re,

Speaker 2 (16:15):

It it’s possible that I might start with an introductory price point mm-hmm <affirmative> and, and allow people to keep that price to join initially, and then say for new participants, it goes up to a certain price later. I mean, I’m not totally ruling that out as a possibility. Okay. So I guess I kind of think of it as priming the pump to get something started early. I, I don’t wanna have a higher price. Objection. Be something that prevents somebody from participating, especially early in the process.

Speaker 1 (16:40):

Sure. Yeah. Sure. And so we can, like, we can go deeper there if you want, because there’s some things on pricing psychology there that there’s some things on memberships you might wanna think about, but we can also, again, this is your call. So you wanna go into some of the higher ticket offerings or you wanna do any more on the membership?

Speaker 2 (16:57):

Well, I, I, I think it’s, it sounds like there might be something interesting worth exploring here when you brought up about memberships and, and pricing psychology. So I, I, I guess I’m, I’m curious, do you think it’d be better to say, you know, just to just come right outta the gate at a higher price from the beginning with this, this you’re thinking $19 a month is just too low. Cause I know if you, if you, if you value something too low, people might look at it and think it’s just not worth that much. So I, I definitely see the trade off.

Speaker 1 (17:22):

I think part of it is looking at, um, who is your ideal client and is your ideal client, someone where $19 a month is a lot for them. Right. Cause I know you said you didn’t wanna price it to where there’s a price barrier to

Speaker 2 (17:35):

Me. Well, that, that was part of my thought process is I wanted to make this available to people in jobs that are, you know, currently were there maybe not making much and, and $19 a month may actually be a significant expense to them. Okay. So that’s part like I making it accessible to a lot of people is a big part of my thought process here. Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:53):

So, so I think with that, so I think it’s just getting clarity on a few things. It’s like, number one, who’s the avatar for this, right? Just like you did so well with the six consulting session package. So if the avatar really is someone who’s maybe in a, maybe it sounds like maybe like a minimum wage situation, right? It’s like, you’ve gotta decide is that who I wanna serve with this? If so cool. If you wanted this to be a big money maker for you, which I’m not hearing you say necessarily night right off the bat, but if you did, you would need to have a big audience. Like we could do the math on it. We wanted, but you need to have a decent size audience. So the going stat and I, my clients who are listening, no, like I’m not about averages. I’m I really believe we create our own reality with what we think is gonna happen, but it may be helpful to consider in general, 3% of your audience at any given time is gonna buy, right?

Speaker 1 (18:44):

So if you look at whatever the size of your email list is, whatever the size of your social following is, especially considering based on the social algorithm, only a percentage of people are gonna see any posts you do about it, right? You could kind of calculate and extrapolate what is 3% of my audience and I can project from there. How many sales I’m gonna make. The other thing to keep in mind is on average with memberships, retention is about three months. So you wanna have a plan and a strategy in place for what are we doing to what are we doing for retention? And if you’re consistently putting out new content, that can be a great thing for retention, but you’re also gonna wanna factor that in that the average customer value then would be, what is that? $57. If it’s three months, mm-hmm, <affirmative> doing math in the middle of a Monday afternoon in my head here.

Speaker 1 (19:31):

I think that’s right. That’s I think that’s right. But so you wanna, you wanna factor that in and you’ll also wanna track it once you get it launched and live, but it’s like, okay, if I know one customer is gonna net me $57, does that, does that even cover the cost of my marketing? Does that cover the cost of my time of putting this out there to me? I would, I, I think this is, again, this is Elise’s framework. You’ve gotta have a clear avatar and something that feels right in an alignment for you. But generally I think about 99 a month, anywhere between 50 to a hundred a month. And you’ll probably pick a number that ends in seven or nine in there. Right. If you wanna look at like pricing psychology and what has people buying? That’s a, like, you’re not gonna have everyone buy it. Right. It’s low enough that for most people it’s still an easy, yes. As long as they’re getting value from it, but it’s like, let’s say you priced it at 99 a month. I’m just throwing it out there. One customer then becomes worth 297 versus 57, assuming the three month retention that may not feel

Speaker 2 (20:35):

Little wondering if I should actually do it as an annual price. Cause I kinda like the idea of somebody committing to a year and paying like it’s a higher commitment level. That way we’re offering a discount if they pay for a year front.

Speaker 1 (20:47):

Yeah. I think that would be very, I mean, when I think about, um, I mean, gosh, I was buying new software today for our contracts and it’s, that’s so normal, right? Here’s the annual price or here’s the, here’s the monthly. And so if it’s the monthly, it’s more so I would, I would play with that again with pricing. I think it’s, it’s two things it’s can you say you’re giving at least 10 X the value and then what number feels in alignment for you that to me and then looking at, okay, what will the market bear? Right. And then just deciding like we made a strategic decision with, she sells a while back that at least for right now, like we are a high end luxury brand and I made the strategic decision. I’m only offering high end services right now because so much of it is, is just on me as we scale and grow out and build in more consultants.

Speaker 1 (21:34):

But I don’t have bandwidth for a ton of lower ticket things right now. That was a strategic decision. It’s not to say that at some point we won’t have lower ticket cuz we probably will like, that’s part of the vision. But I think for you, I would look at where am I at right now in my life? What is my bandwidth? What’s my positioning gonna be? And if I’m positioning this as 19 a month, is that gonna be in alignment with also selling higher ticket services? And it could be, it’s all just positioning and it’s about what, like what’s gonna make sense to people from a pricing psychology standpoint. I love it when offers kind of stack and make sense in terms of numbers and it can all AF flow, but again, you’ve got two different kind of businesses here we’re talking about too. So that may not even be a thing.

Speaker 2 (22:18):

Yeah. So yeah, cause it’s not, I’m not necessarily think in terms of like minimum wage earners, like you were talking about. Cause I think that that’s a very tough scenario to deal with. I think it’s more of somebody who’s, um, making a decent income, but doesn’t have a lot of free cash and left at the end of the month. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that’s that seems to be a common scenario. Like, and it might be somebody working an office job. It could be somebody working in the trades. It could be, you know, somebody with either family responsibilities or, but they’re yeah. So sure. Yeah. But anyhow, I, I think it, it it’s yeah, I could, I could take a lot of what you said and just think about a lot of different variables.

Speaker 1 (22:55):

Yeah, I would, yeah. I, I would play with it and I think part of it too, is people will. So even someone in that situation, it’s like, what are they paying for cable and phone every month. Right. I bet. And this, this is, again, this is just at least guessing here, but I guess they’re spending at least a couple hundred bucks a month, most people for entertainment, right. For phone. And so it’s like, they, it’s not that they don’t have the money. It’s what are their values? What are their priorities? And so I always, I want my clients to value what I put out there so much. I find when people invest more, they do value it more. So I would just, I would play with that and I would say how close to a hundred feels okay to me per month or to your point, if I wanna, like, if you wanna package it as a, more of a course, like a one time payment type of thing or an annual membership, you can play with those numbers too. So if we want, if you wanna try to nail a specific price point right now we can, or if you say, Hey, I’m gonna go back and this is gonna gimme some food for thought to think about,

Speaker 2 (23:58):

Yes, this I, I need to process this. Yeah. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna nail it down right now, but, but yeah, no, you gave me a couple of good angles to consider on that. Okay. I

Speaker 1 (24:06):

Appreciate that. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about, you wanna talk about the other programs and pricing structure of those? Sure,

Speaker 2 (24:13):

Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:14):

Okay. Was there anything else first on the, on the escape, the eight to five that you wanted to talk through?

Speaker 2 (24:19):

No, I think we, we, we hit everything on that for right now.

Speaker 1 (24:22):

Okay, cool. And so just super click. This is quick. This is for my brand to clarify. There’s nothing, there’s no upsells from that. There’s not like a V I P version. There’s not anything additional they’re getting, it’s just the 19 a month. Self-service and we’re leaving that what it is at

Speaker 2 (24:36):

This point. I don’t have anything in mind for that. Not to say it couldn’t change, but, but yeah, I don’t have anything in mind as far as an upsell for that at this point.

Speaker 1 (24:45):

Okay. Okay. Cool. Well, let’s talk about why don’t we dive into some of these higher tier packages and we, you start, you told me a fair amount about the six consulting session package that I know you said you were playing with another one at 4,500. So I guess tell me before we go any further, what do you need to get clear on before the end of our conversation? That’s gonna be helpful with, with these packages?

Speaker 2 (25:14):

Yeah. I think what I would, what would help me right now in terms of, of what would in getting my thought process clear is, am I speaking the right language or, or thinking about the right problem from the standpoint of the market for my second offering? So when I think about an offering for coaches, am I, um, thinking about a problem that really is as important to other people as I think it is, that’s it, it’s easy to get stuck in my own head and come up with my own theories, but it’s really, so when I look at the, what I envisioned as being the problem that comes from unconscious competence or, or just things being second nature and skillsets, not transferring mm-hmm <affirmative>, I, I see that as having a, a successful coaching business with no way to scale it. And I’ve seen people, not even just coaches, but I’ve seen this with CPAs, with, you know, with attorneys, I’ve seen it with people in the therapy world.

Speaker 2 (26:12):

I mean, really any of those do some degree of coaching, but you have a business that’s built around the unique skills and personality of one person mm-hmm <affirmative> and nobody, I can’t scale myself anyone more than anyone else can. And, and, and so I think that’s, that’s really the problem I’m trying to solve. So the question I’m worried about when you ask, what do I need to be clear about is do act, do people actually care about that? As much as I think they do mm-hmm <affirmative> or am I just kind of projecting my own thought process under the world and you know, about to build something that just doesn’t have the relevance that I’m expecting? Cause I’ve, I’ve done that before and, and that’s kind of might need some outside perspective on that piece.

Speaker 1 (26:49):

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m happy to share my perspective on that now, if you, um, sure. If you’re asking. Yeah, yeah, I think it’s so part of this could be, this is literally the season that I am in, in my life right now. <laugh> but as you say it it’s like, yes, it is a huge problem. And to me, the, um, and I, I think every, and you know, this cuz you know, a ton of coaches, you do coach people, there comes a point where it’s like, you’re gonna make a strategic decision about how your coaching business is structured and you’re gonna decide, do I want to like, is it really, there’s like, I’m good being capped at a certain level and I wanna make whatever it is, you know, a couple hundred grand a year, maybe up to seven figures a year. And it’s like, it’s on me mostly and on my personality.

Speaker 1 (27:39):

Um, and I’m good with that. Or do I have a desire to scale and expand beyond that? And I’m not saying one is right or one is wrong because I think it’s really about alignment and what feels right for that individual. I don’t think every coach needs to scale necessarily, but as one, as a coach who is currently in the process of doing what you help people do, because that is a desire of mine to expand us beyond just the least Archer brand. Yes, it is huge. I’m literally sitting here mapping out, okay. For like, for everything that I’ve just taught intuitively for the past, you know, however long I’ve been running my business, like how do I get this so structured that someone else could come in and teach this? And how do I get this duplicatable where it’s not just on me? And we’re in the process of launching a consultant certification program to bring in other coaches to come and get trained in this.

Speaker 1 (28:32):

But as someone where that’s not my natural, like I can sit down and do it. I can sit down and brain dump and say, okay, what are the steps? It’s this, this, this, this, this, um, it’s not the most enjoyable part and no doubt. I’m, I’m probably missing parts as I do it too. Right. That’ll come up like as I go and figure it out. But I think it absolutely is a big problem. I, I know that it’s a market because I, I know other people in the field who will help right. With like, turn it, like packaging, your knowledge. How do you package your knowledge into a product or a program or a course. Because oftentimes when you’re the one who holds the knowledge, you’re not the best one to get it out of your head and package it. So all of that to say, yes, it is a <laugh>, it is a problem. And I think you absolutely have a, um, you have a very viable market with what you’re doing.

Speaker 2 (29:25):

Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. Sometimes I just have to get at those reality checks, cuz I just, I stare at something too long and I’m, I’m thinking, you know, does everyone else think as seeing what I’m seeing? So I’m glad, I’m glad to hear that. So thank you.

Speaker 1 (29:40):

Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, and it’s like, not everyone will know that because they won’t be there yet, but you’re right. People, they will have enough pain point around it where they’ll be like, yes, I need this.

Speaker 2 (29:48):

Well, no. And I think you’re like, it also validates what I was thinking in the beginning. Like there is a, a distinction needs to be made of, do you actually want to scale your coaching business? Because there are coaches who don’t. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s, that’s a question that needs to be asked up front because it’s like, it does take as, as you’re going through right now and experiencing a massive investment of time and energy to create something scalable out of something. That’s not mm-hmm <affirmative> that’s it’s, it’s a question of people have to ask, do you actually wanna make this effort or are you just kind of happy to co coast along where you are? If you are that’s that’s fine. This, like you said, nothing’s for everybody, but yeah,

Speaker 1 (30:21):

Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so one of the things I would look at and, and you can, if you wanna go in another direction from here, we can, but I think getting really clear from your positioning on what are you helping them scale, right? So the six sessions, $1,500. It’s like, that’s, that’s the how, but what’s the end result. Are they, is it helping them create it, turn it specifically into a course that’s customer facing. Is it helping them? Like what if someone is like me and they say, no, I actually wanna launch a certification program for this. And I need someone to help mapping out how that’s gonna be structured. And what’s that what that’s gonna look like, cuz that’s another element of scaling, right? There’s all these different elements of scaling. There’s also just getting your systems and structures in place. Something else fun we’re doing right now, building out like 8 million automations in the business. So at least doesn’t send manual emails to people anymore, but that’s another element of scaling. Right? So I think just being very clear on the front end, if you’re helping someone scale their coaching business, what does that look like? Is it specific to the course? And if it’s the course, what does that look like? Right. Are you helping them actually like create it? Are you helping them map it out? Are you helping with marketing strategy? Like just getting very, very clear on what’s the deliverable.

Speaker 2 (31:36):

So that’s, that’s a good question. So really at the core of it, it, it could be a course. It could be a certification program. It could be an internal training program. It, it, the, the form of it could be any of those things. But at the core of what I’m really doing is I, I, I say I put people’s genius in a bottle, essentially. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like, I’ll, I’ll take your, your unique expertise. And I’ll package that it’ll take basically distill it down to its most potent form and create a process where, what, what people perceive as unique about only you being able to do. I will actually show you how to create it so other people can learn it because I think the most common misconception or the, the, the myth I hear out there all the time is that there’s so many things that you have to just be born with a talent for mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I strongly disagree with that. I believe anything can be learned if you have a desire to learn it. Yeah. And it’s just kinda like riding a bike, you know, anybody, I mean, obviously there’s, you may have a certain physical invitations might prevent you from being able to ride a bike, but you know, we don’t tell kids, you have to be one of the natural bike rider. Otherwise you’re outta outta luck. It’s like, no, you wanna ride a bike, you have to learn how sure. And it’s just like that with anything else.

Speaker 1 (32:44):

Sure. No, I love that. So, so here’s a few things that I would be thinking about then. So in terms of pricing and kind of mapping this out, I think the, to me, there’s one potential gap that you might look at when, when you’re looking at pricing structure, there’s just the, there’s the information, right? So it’s like, it’s DIY do it yourself. To me, that feels like a course that feels like I’m gonna take a self-paced course. It’s not gonna do it for me, but it’s gonna tell me what I need to do to bottle my genius. Now what’s interesting about like, to me, if I was looking at this outside in that would be the entry level, if you’re gonna create it, is something like a self-study course that these coaches could take to bottle their genius.

Speaker 2 (33:28):

There will be yes. There, there will be a self-study course. It’s just not in existence yet. Not

Speaker 1 (33:32):

In existence yet. Okay, awesome. So that one would be kind of like DIY then I’d say the next tier up would probably be done with you. So we might look at that six session package to say, what does it look like for me to do this with someone to say, we’re in these six sessions, we’re gonna map out this strategy. We’re gonna be working on this together, yada yada, and then the top tier could be done for you, which would probably be a much higher investment on their part. But if that’s something you’re interested in going in and actually helping someone create this asset and create, um, whatever that scale scalability piece is in their business, boy,

Speaker 2 (34:08):

Have I ever wrestled with that question of, for somebody and it’s yeah. I’m, I’m always kind of, so the answer is, is a resounding it depends, but yes, mm-hmm, <affirmative> that, but here, and I’ll just flip one thing a little bit on its side here. As far as the way my product development process works is I would actually, the way I envision this happening is when I do roll out this $1,500, six session offering for helping somebody bottle, their genius, that process of working with people is actually gonna be eventually what becomes the self-paced course. Okay. And eventually once I have it done to a self-paced course, I’m gonna stop offering live interaction because then I’m gonna spend that time developing the next offering. So it’s kind of how I envision my product develop life cycle going.

Speaker 1 (34:51):

Okay. I, what I like about you doing that, and I’m always a fan of this too, is get people to pay you for it first. So before you spend all the time, cuz you know, is someone who develops courses, it’s a lot of work. Yeah. So getting proof of concept, getting people to pay this for you first hire ticket. I like that a lot, so. Okay. So you’re clear on that, but then it’s the, let me ask you, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (35:12):

I was just gonna, this is why I’m not doing an upsell and the eight to five escape program, cuz my idea would be to continue adding additional courses that become additional streams of revenue. So I would have a little bit of a concern if I added an upsell that might take time away from developing additional products. So yeah,

Speaker 1 (35:29):

100%. Yeah, 100%. So what questions do you okay, so I kind of talked in throughout some options, but what, what questions do you have from there in terms of pricing structure here?

Speaker 2 (35:40):

Yeah, I, I think the last question is the one you’ve already raised yourself. Do it. Should I do a done for you offering? Because I could say like, I, I even envisioned like how much would somebody have to pay me to say I’ll do the whole thing for you. Kitten caboodle mm-hmm <affirmative> and I was, I got to, I, I kept going to higher and higher numbers. I got to 250,000 and still thought it wasn’t enough money. So I’m thinking mm-hmm <affirmative> it just because the, the dilemma I have is if I’m gonna put the amount of sweat equity into building it, why wouldn’t I rather just own it myself. That that’s really what it comes down to. Why would I wanna get paid to build something for somebody else to own? Okay. That’s that’s kind of the dilemma I haven’t sorted out yet. So mm-hmm

Speaker 1 (36:19):

<affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> and when you say so the 250 K price point, was that helping someone that was building a course for someone or that was okay. So here’s what I would say with that is, um, I think, gosh, I’m just thinking about, cause I’ve talked to, I’ve worked with numerous different service providers and the, the, the pricing structure is always different, right? It’s like sometimes it’s monthly where it’s, we’re paying a retainer every month for this amount. Um, I think you will be challenged to find people who will invest that much unless they just, you know, they’re coming from a really big corporation and they need help building it out. And yada it’s like, could someone pay that? Absolutely. Is it probably gonna be few and far between based on the avatar? Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 (37:03):

So that’s exactly what I was thinking.

Speaker 1 (37:05):

Yep. Yeah. So then the question becomes, okay, I, is that showing up because this is something I just don’t really wanna do. Right.

Speaker 2 (37:13):

Well, I, I, I think that’s the other question, right? Cause I, cuz I, I just keeps going back like do, do I wanna put the sweat equity into building something that I’m not gonna own at the end of the day? Like that that’s where I’m thinking, I’d rather just build it and own it myself than get paid to build it for somebody else. That’s that’s kind of, so yeah. That’s where, that’s where I, I haven’t come to a final answer on that, but that’s kinda what I’m sitting with.

Speaker 1 (37:37):

Yeah. So, so something I would consider and, and usually what I find is, and this is how I think about some things too. It’s like if someone is willing to pay enough, like for me at this point in my life, it’s all about when I’m working with client and I love what I do. Like I could, I’m like you like you and I could probably just sit down in front of our computers and go all day long. Cuz we love our clients. We love what we do. We’re passionate. And when you do that, you’re trading time away from your life, your friends, your family, everyone you care about. So with pricing, sometimes it’s like, someone’s actually willing to pay me this. I’ll do it. Like I’ll step away and do it cuz I, but I know I’m trading this part of my life for it. And it’s not something that like lights my soul on fire. So I would probably look to that as an indication of mm I just the done for you. Isn’t like, that’s just not resonating with me right now. So I’m not gonna put a lot of energy into it.

Speaker 2 (38:28):

Yeah. One, I might just kinda let sit on the back burner if I can come up with a way to do it. That really, I feel like really does align. Yeah. It’s something that, that I’m open to. But I, but it’s just not, I don’t have anything that really clearly fits that right now. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:40):

Something else you might consider though, because I know you also said you like a short, kind of a shorter term engagement, have you thought about doing, you know, strategy days with clients? It’s like, what would it look like to take that six succession consulting package and turn it into a full day or even a two day intensive and charge anywhere from probably 10 to $20,000 for it. And they get the deliverable of their full like package and what they’re gonna receive. They get everything outlined in that time together. We’d probably wanna look at the pricing on the 1500, cuz it may not make sense. Mm-hmm <affirmative> with that. Other, with that pricing depending on what else

Speaker 2 (39:16):

Compare it to yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:17):

Yeah. You probably need to bump up the pricing of the consulting session package. Um, but VIP days people are usually charging. They’re being charged more because it’s, it’s full time with you. You’ve got a venue, you’ve got space, yada yada. So how does anything like that sound to,

Speaker 2 (39:33):

I would definitely be open to that. Yeah, yeah. That’s again, it would, I would view it as part of my product development life cycle and not it’s, but I do like that it’s it’s a once and done kind of an offer that yeah. Like if somebody says, Hey, I wanna, I’ve got, yeah. I, I, I could see that working that type of structure working.

Speaker 1 (39:49):

Yeah, totally. So, so I would play with that and I mean, I’m happy to share again, this is at the time of this recording, these numbers will probably change at some point. Um, but just for context and infrastructure, you know, for, for us, we do a half day, so a half day with clients. So we do only do half days virtually cuz by the time you drive there and get there, it’s just, it’s not at a time, but virtual half day, 6,500 bucks, um, a full day, virtual is 10,000, a full day in person is 12,000. And so with any of those, they leave with here’s your game plan of what you’re getting, here’s your strategy, yada yada, and then the whole day is custom to them. So I’m thinking about for you. And I think that’s a very reasonable price point. Um, it’s it’s not the cheapest, but it’s by far not the most expensive in the industry and you and I are catering to a similar audience space.

Speaker 1 (40:37):

So, and then from there they could move into perhaps some sort of a continuity program with you, whether it’s succession package for follow up, whether it’s, you know, moving into your course, I’d think about what am I gonna have in place for, for continuity. But something like that might be a good offering. And you could play with the positioning. If you felt like someone needed two days, um, to work with you, then you’d probably look at closer to, you know, 15 to 20,000 for the two days, if those first price points felt right. But those again, I just, I wanna share with you everything I can in terms of what we’re doing, if that’s helpful.

Speaker 2 (41:10):

So cause yeah, yeah. I like the, I like the way that you’re, you’re laying that out. So yeah, I think I’ve got plenty to go back and think about and also figure in, you know, how, how the, the eight to five escape course plays into this. And it’s, it’s, it’s all very much a work in progress and like I’ll echo what you said. All of my numbers may change by the time anyone talks to me again. So <laugh>

Speaker 1 (41:33):

Yeah, we have the right to raise the prices because that is how, and that’s, that’s also, I think one of the great things about just for anyone who’s listening to this and is like, this sounds really exciting. Like I like what he’s doing, you know, I like his energy. It’s like get in on the ground floor, you know, while the pricing, because it will only go up cuz it should only go up from here. Um, so, so that’s always fun. So Dave, for me, before we, uh, start to wind down here, any other questions on anything we talked about? Do you feel like you at least have a, some sort of a plan going out of this or is there anything I can still clear up for you based on what we talked about?

Speaker 2 (42:08):

I mean, I, I, but I certainly could come up with questions all day long, but, but I got a lot of good value out of this and, and you have me thinking about the, you know, building a strategy day, jumping off point offering. And so yeah, I, I just, I gotta get back to my, my drawing board and keep, keep working and look forward to, uh, sharing more with folks is this is everything develops.

Speaker 1 (42:29):

Absolutely awesome. Awesome. Well, this is one, so one question I always ask at the end of just mapping and strategy sessions. And then after that, I want you to tell everyone where to connect with you. But I think just to integrate everything we talked about, what’s the number one takeaway that you’re taking with you today into the creation of your programs and what you’re building?

Speaker 2 (42:48):

I, I think what, what you’ve actually illuminated for me is that with respect to my product, the eight to five escape course, I need to do a better job dialing in on it, precisely who my audience is. I realize I haven’t. And I kind of knew that, but you’ve a couple of the questions you asked, made me realize that needs to be a higher priority on my list is really mapping out a persona and a profile for that. And I, I think, you know, just also thinking of that in relation to pricing, because who, who my audience is, is going to really determine to a great extent what the price needs to be for the different offerings. So that that’s my takeaway today.

Speaker 1 (43:23):

Awesome. Awesome. Dave, tell everyone, where can they go to connect with you if they wanna learn more about your courses or if they’re a coach and they’re like, I need to bottle my genius. How do I do this? Tell everyone where they can connect and learn more.

Speaker 2 (43:36):

Great. Thank you. So yeah, my website is Dave hyphen Don’t forget the hyphen. And if you wanna check out the course, it is escape eight to and those are the, the two best places to find me. If you also look up for me on social media, my handles are it’s Baldwin systems is the handle for Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Speaker 1 (43:56):

Awesome. Awesome. Hey, thank you, my friend, this was fun to, to put on my pricing hat today and kind of think through strategically with you. And I wanna just acknowledge you for what you’re creating it’s it’s needed. It’s important. There are so many people in the world who need what you’re doing and the world is gonna be better served. So thank you for, uh, for coming on and, and for what you’re creating. And I’m so excited to see it all come together and for you, my listener go connect with Dave, have fun, learning more about everything he’s doing. It’s really, really important work in the world. I’m so grateful for you as a listener and we will see you next time on she sells radio bye for now.


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