Branding Essentials for 2023 w/ Nadine Hanafi, Founder of Digital Brand Kit

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Welcome to She Sells Radio my guest today is one of the most talented

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individuals I’ve ever met when it comes to branding and visual design and I met Nadine hanafi years ago when

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we were both partnered with the same company and at the time I was in that

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kind of frustrating place that you may be able to relate to depending on your journey and whether you’re in sales or

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whether you’re an entrepreneur maybe you’re you have a vision of being an entrepreneur but I was in that space

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where I knew I had a really good service but I didn’t feel like my brand

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reflected it and so I was almost like embarrassed to go out and do

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presentations or share my brand materials because I knew they weren’t doing me any favors so maybe you can

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relate to that but you know ask and it is given and I had this desire to find

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something better and shortly after I met Nadine I got introduced to this most incredible product she had created

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called digital brand kit which I’ll let you tell I’ll let her tell you a little bit more about today but it’s

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essentially this really really cool Plug and Play system for female entrepreneurs

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to create gorgeous visual brand assets for a fraction of the cost of what they

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would pay a design firm and also like look really great doing it and so I’ve

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used her product for years now I don’t think she even knows this but literally just recently we pitched a bigger

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podcast for me to go on and they came back to my team and said you know what normally we don’t accept guest pitches

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but you’re Media Kit was so impressive that we knew we had to make an exception for you so

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this stuff works and we’re gonna talk branding we’re going to talk visual

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identity we’re going to talk how to uplevel your brand today I want to give you just a little bit of context for who

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Nadine is outside of my own personal experience of her and then I’ll I’ll introduce her to come on SO Nadine

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hanafi is the founder of an award-winning design firm called we are visual she’s the author of an

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internationally recognized book and training program called slide therapy and the creator of I would agree the

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most epic branding system on the internet called digital brand kit she’s a certified branding expert a Fortune

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100 design consultant and professional cheerleader for women with big dreams she has over a decade of experience

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working with c-suite execs at companies like Disney and Verizon and working with best-selling authors like Lori harder

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and Sarah Knight helping them share their messages through inspired visual stories and head turning visual branding

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Nadine welcome to she sells radio I’m so glad to have you today thank you for I’m

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super excited to be here so okay you know I kind of shared my own place I was

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in in my life when we connected and it was like you came in and The Branding Angels sang and everything shifted for

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me and I was like an amazing product and just knowing you

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and knowing some of the behind the scenes like I know this has been a massive undertaking to create digital

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brand kid and what you’ve created but I want to hear about what led you to this

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like where did you have the Epiphany for this what got you on your branding journey to start and let’s kind of lead it up to what led to the creation of of

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digital brand Kip well that’s a great question there’s many things that kind of fell into place

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and led me to to this the first thing is first of all all of these assets

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everything inside digital brand kit is made in PowerPoint and so I have the first is the journey with PowerPoint how

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you know most people are building this stuff in canva or photoshop I built it in PowerPoint and for the simple reason

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that I was too lazy to learn photoshop your honesty I mean I tried to learn it

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once yeah and I think I gave it maybe an hour and I was like screw this like this we did three minutes I so the story goes

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I’m a last my first and my last corporate job I was a marketing manager

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and the company I worked for needed more design help and so they paid for me to

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take some courses online and they got me at lynda.com subscription at the time

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and so they were like okay so you’re gonna go learn Photoshop and all the design stuff and so you can make you

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know do design for us I was like great I go in there sign sign into lynda.com go into the Photoshop 101 course and I see

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it says 15 hours of video and I was like there’s no way I’m sitting through 15

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hours of video to learn Photoshop but I was like all right they’re paying me for you know for me to do this I have to do

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this I start watching video one three minutes into video one I turn it off I said hell no not happening

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coming from someone with your background I think it’s like we you know we think

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we should just be able to master these things and like get it like you know we I say we meaning yeah the women who you

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primarily serve right so female entrepreneurs and women like yeah we should just be able to Masters it’s it’s

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almost reassuring to know that someone with your background looked at that and was like no it’s just no I’m not I’m not

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wasting time no and the truth is is Photoshop is a beast of a tool that even

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professional designers with years of experience won’t even use a fraction of all of the capability that it has so you

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can imagine that as a business owner who’s just trying to get some graphics made it’s way too much Firepower than

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you know more than you need so uh so what happened is I just started

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wandering around lynda.com and I found just regular design courses that taught me design principles and those were much

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more interesting to me because I was just discovering myself as a creative I thought I was a you know like I was a

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business major so I thought I was business business but I discovered this creative side of me and watching these

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courses and then what I realized is simply all of those things that I was learning in those design courses I could actually uh apply using PowerPoint which

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was the only design tool that I knew how to use at the time and so that is you know I just hacked

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PowerPoint to you know be able to do anything that I wanted to do for me and so I used it to create brochures for the

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company I work for one pagers graphics for websites uh obviously presentations

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which is what is primarily designed for but I was able to create all sorts of things out of it and so mastering

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PowerPoint is really what led me to the journey to start we are visual start serving clients creating presentations

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for them so that was my Niche initially as I created what I called artistic PowerPoint presentations and I worked

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primarily with professional speakers and so to Circle back and answer your

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question how digital brand kit came up is I realized that many of my clients when they would come to me they didn’t

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have uh branding or they didn’t have great branding and so I would have to create a beautiful visual identity for

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them in order to be able to create a beautiful presentation for them and they would tell me well I really love what

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you did for my presentation I love the way my presentation Looks Could you carry that over and create all of these

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other brand assets from me so that everything matches and I was like sure so I started doing that and then I

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realized well I could probably just package all of this up into templates that you could you know use and that’s

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how I got on the journey to creating digital brand kit that’s really how it came up that’s the origin story

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that’s the origin story yeah and you know we’re gonna talk like high level

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design principles today we’re going to talk brand principles today so um regardless of whether somebody ends

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up using I’ll call it DB okay from here just for sure like regardless of what path someone goes down they’re going to

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get value yeah yeah it’s great it’s like she sells though I didn’t think about it when I was naming the company and

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anytime I go on a podcast interview now they’re like

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I’ll call my own company SS we’ll call digital brand kid DBK right we’ll keep

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it we’ll keep it clean so we’ll be talking a higher level branding and design principles

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um here as well too but I think I I do want to give you a little bit of time towards the end to talk about what DBK

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is why it’s different because to me it’s just so like like I just I think it’s incredible so

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um what I would love to talk about first though is when let’s say that a woman is

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just starting off with her branding or maybe she kind of

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like piecemeal did a little bit at the beginning and she’s like okay I want to get a little more serious but she’s still in the early phases what are some

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of the top mistakes that you see women make with their branding and visual

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identity great question so so the the most common

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thing that I see happening is that people go out and spend way too much money right off the bat to build their

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brand or to get a visual identity and why I think that is a mistake is for many reasons first is when you’re just

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starting out um in the personal branding space your your brand is going to be very fluid because you’re still figuring yourself

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out first of all as a person in you know in the personal branding space but also

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as a professional in your Niche or industry right who are you who do you

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serve and so you won’t really get answers to those questions until you

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actually get into action gain momentum put yourself out there and let the market respond to you and tell you yes

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this is great you’re great you’re solving the right problem everything is aligned everything works or it’ll tell

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you oh you probably need a pivot here you probably need to change your positioning or you need to attract a

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different kind of people than what you’re attracting right now and so it may come in the form of you’re attracting people who don’t want to pay

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for your stuff you know they’re not seeing the value um or it can you know can come in the

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form of attracting a lot of freeloaders um I’ve never attracted that whenever

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that was everyone I attracted when I was first starting out yeah yeah that’s a common problem so so it’s like as you’re

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doing this as you’re actually getting into action you’re figuring out all the things that you need to shift and so wouldn’t it be a shame if you went out

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and spent thirty thousand dollars for this beautiful custom brand and then six months down the road you realize this is

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not aligned for me it’s not working it’s not it’s not producing results and then you just threw thirty thousand dollars

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out the window um yeah that would hurt right and that’s actually something that I see a lot

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happening with too right yeah and so the other

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problem that comes with that is if you are right away having somebody build all

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of your assets for you then you’re becoming reliant on outside help constantly every time you need to

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execute on any idea that comes to you in your business you are always in a

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pattern of I have an idea I have to go find somebody to help me execute it and so you’re not able to execute on your

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ideas as quickly because there’s always this delay of I have to hire someone to create these Graphics back and forth

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emails days weeks sometimes months and you might end up giving up on some ideas

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that you just can’t watch because you are not able to you know get the help you need to launch it so

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um so that’s that’s another thing I see you and then the other one is uh diying but like

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diying the wrong way right and piecemeat yeah he’s kneeling that’s that happens a

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lot is okay well I’m going to just get some templates on canva free templates

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for social media I’m going to go on Creative Market buy some you know canva templates for uh my slides for example

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but here’s the thing because you’re getting different temples from different people it all it doesn’t look cohesive

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right so you’re either spending a lot of time that you should not be spending on

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making everything look like it belongs together or you’re not in which case your branding looks like it’s all over

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the place and it doesn’t look polished and professional and so that may bother you just in terms of confidence and

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showing up and it also May bother people who are like oh she doesn’t look very put together you know like that she

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doesn’t look legit and so that’s the other thing so it’s piecemealing or

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spending way too much money uh right off the bat yeah so where is that I mean obviously

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this is a a problem that you solve right with your service but we’re even kind of outside of that like where is that sweet

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spot for somebody then if they’re starting out like what what should the goal be if they’re earlier in their

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Journey they’re like I’m not ready to invest 30 000 in a brand yet but I still want something that looks really good

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and cohesive like what should our goals be when we’re starting off well um the best

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the bester at that stage is becoming a really great creative director and

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becoming very aware of what assets your business needs right so most people

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don’t know what they what they don’t know and they don’t know what they need they think okay my branding is my logo

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my fonts my colors and my website and I’m like and you’re done like no that’s just the tip of the iceberg there are

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all these other things that you need so being able to be proactive and go make a

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list of what are all the assets that your business is going to need based on what you know actions you’re going to

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take if you’re going to go out and start doing some speaking or you want to build a podcast or whatever it is make a list

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so you’re not reactive because that’s where a lot of people waste a lot of time they’re like oh oh I need this you

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know now I have to go create it and then they make some more motion and they’re like oh now I need this other thing and so you’re constantly reacting to your

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graphic needs instead of proactively making a list of what you expect anticipate you will need so that’s one

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one type I would share and then the tip about being a creative director is if you’re going to hire uh not a 30 000

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designer so probably a junior designer someone who’s a little bit more affordable then it’s going to fall on

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you to give them the one the creative Direction so you need to be able to

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explain very thoroughly what it is that you need so you need to have the vision and explain it to the person and then

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you need to be aware of what what does that graphic need to have in order for it to work so most Junior designers are

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not experts in personal branding they’re mostly not experts in digital marketing so they don’t know what these how these

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assets are supposed to function how they’re supposed to convert so it falls on you so it’s up to you to educate

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yourself on these things so that you can communicate properly to your designer so if anyone listening has had an

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experience where they’re you know they’ve had to write these mean emails where the graphic designer sends something and they’re like that is not

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at all what I had in mind always a delicate moment because I never

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I mean my Emma was like I don’t want to quote-unquote hurt someone’s feelings right yeah but at the same time you see

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something and you’re like oh wow like you have no words besides uh what part

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of clean design did you not understand but the thing is is these designers are

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not mind readers so if you are frustrated with the design process with

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a designer that you may have hired chances are I’m sorry to say it’s your fault it’s because you’re counting on

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them to do the heavy lifting but they’re not paid enough to do that heavy lift and the heavy lifting is on you to do

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they are executors and they will execute beautifully that’s their job but you have to give them the creative Direction

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so creative Direction and uh what’s the other one I said uh oh I was so caught up in the creative

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Direction

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which I think you know I I appreciate too what you shared there towards the end of like you know what if you’re not

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getting back what you want it’s your fault because it really is kind of like what we all get to where we all get to

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up level our mindset as whether you’re you know sales professional whether you’re an entrepreneur just taking that

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radical responsibility and communication for okay if what is it um gosh I’ve been

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doing I guess it’s through NLP training there’s a couple different things I’ve been studying over the years through a certain company and it’s like

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um the meaning of the communication is whatever the person on the other end received it to be heard it as and so I

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think that can be challenging for our ego but also helpful

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to remember and really good as you’re leading and growing your support team as well so I think that’s I think that’s really

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really helpful advice and that was one of the things when I first started working with you like I didn’t realize

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there were so many different types of assets that I could use for my brand everything from a speaker kit to a Media

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Kit to um course slide speaking slides webinars it’s like they’re all different and it’s

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just stuff you don’t and then you know not to mention the social media assets so making that brainstorm list I think

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is such a good idea you know I’m curious Nadine if someone maybe somebody has

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some branding in place already and they wanna up level it right they’re like I’m

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still not quite ready to go all the way in and pay big bucks for someone but what are like some really quick ways we

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can up level the look and feel of our brand and start to attract higher end clients with that

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hmm that’s a great question um I would say the first place to start

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is colors mmm color your color choices um you so most of

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your design and how your design is uh received and uh interpreted comes from

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the colors that you choose it’s not the fonts it’s not the shapes it’s it’s the

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colors right the colors are the most powerful brand element in your design that communicates the most important

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information so if you want to kind of audit your branding audit your colors

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and so there’s tons of resources online where you can go figure out you know uh

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the meaning behind your colors and make sure that that meaning is aligned with what you’re trying to put

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out there right so the I would say the first place to start is really more

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introspective right because a lot of people when they wanna uh you know fix their visual Identity or change their

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visual identity they go straight into the design portion and that’s a big mistake the place to start is looking on

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the inside and figuring out okay you know what is my brand and what is my energy as a person what is my brand

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energy and what is this vibe that I’m trying to create this experience I’m trying to create and put out into the

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world and once you have a clear vision of that that’s when you can go back and go okay

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you can audit your branding against that say well is my branding helping me communicate all of these things yes or

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no if no it’s probably the colors and it’s like well what colors should I incorporate into my branding in order to

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communicate these things that I want to put out and so one of the programs that

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I am developing right now I’m going to be launching soon is called the caller Workshop um and anything I know it sounds fun it

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is fun um and I also offer color consultation it’s like basically like card reading

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you know like where they flip the cards but we’re we’re basically doing an energy reading of like who are you as a

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person and then uh we uncover the cards that match your personality and then you

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find out what your colors are so it’s a blind test okay I give you a bunch of cars that are black and white and then

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you pick the words that are a match for you as a person that you connect with and then we take the cover off the cards

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and you find out what your colors are and cool why it’s great is because you’re not biased right you’re you don’t

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have any pregnancy because a lot of us have preconceptions about colors right we may just not like a certain color

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because we’ve seen it and we just you know didn’t connect with it or we’ve seen a color be used by somebody else

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that we don’t like and so we bring all that baggage in when we’re trying to pick colors and this is designed to

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remove that baggage it’s like you are going to pick your colors based on truths not based on taste not based on

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Trends right and so this exercise with everyone I’ve done it with has been

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extremely powerful uh lots of surprises I’ve had people where you know they came

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in they were super sure what their brand colors were they did the exercise and literally the first colors they limited

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because it’s a process of elimination right from 12 colors down to three okay the first colors they eliminated were

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the exact brand colors that they thought were theirs yeah right and so again just

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to answer your question color is the most important part of your branding so if there’s anything you’re going to

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change or analyze or figure out if it’s the right fit that is what you need to uh kind of hone in on ah and that’s that

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is like the hardest piece I remember when I first started she sells and I so

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much of the brand was just kind of channeled initially and I kind of just got this download for like you know

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these are the colors and this is the thing and it it works but now as I look back we just did a brand update and yeah

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you know I was like I was finally in a place where it made sense to bring someone on to do something at a higher level yeah um but until then we’ve been

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kind of rolling with just what you know what at least channeled in her meditation and I look back on it now and

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it’s like it’s a lot of colors I loved yeah but I don’t know that it communicated the best message or the

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best so it’s to your point it makes a huge impact hack like colors make a few black and I think having some clarity on

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um like what is really congruent with who you are as a person especially if you’re building something as a personal brand like that’s and who you want to

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attract ah yeah for me yeah that is a very important part of this so most

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people just like you pick their brands based on taste or based on a download that they had right they they the just

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colors fell from The Ether and they’re like let’s say you’re doing it right but

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and by the way that’s very it’s very important that you connect with your

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colors so that is an important piece of it but uh if if you’re the only one

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connecting with your colors uh that’s not going to work because you’re not building your website for you to go look at it and go oh my God my website is so

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pretty you know your graphics are not for you you want to feel confident about them so

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that you’re confident showing up in your branding and you know getting yourself out there and sharing your stuff but you

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have to pick your colors strategically based on your target audience and who

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you’re trying to attract And the emotions that you’re trying to trigger in those people so is it trust is it

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warmth is it um you know kindness can what is it that you’re trying to communicate to these

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people and there are actual exact colors that will help you trigger those emotions and those feelings and those

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colors you need to make sure that you include in your branding so it might look like just using those colors or it

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might look like marrying those colors that are attracting your ideal audience with those colors that you connect with

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on a personal level and finding a mix of both yeah it’s it’s such a good reminder

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anytime I have someone brilliant in branding on the show they always come back and talk about like remember it’s not about you it’s about your customer

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it’s your customers experience it’s your customers feelings and it’s especially

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if we’re building a personal brand it’s it can be easy to to forget but it really is so so key and that’s something

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that you know we’ll link your media and your websites um in the show notes but I think that’s something you’ve done such a good job of

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and someone can go and literally like look at the copy and look at the positioning like it is your brand and

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your company and it’s still all about them right yeah so yeah so good good uh

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best practice there so I want to take a moment and speak about I want you to

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share a little bit more specifically about digital brand kit and then we’ve got a really cool um offer for the audience and if

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someone’s been listening to my show for a while they know I don’t usually have people come on and do like a direct

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share of what they’re doing I maybe didn’t ask you I wanted her to come on and do this because I believe so much in

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the product and what she’s building so can you share a little bit more specifically about digital brand kit how

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it works and then we’ll tell I’ve got one final question for you and we’ll tell people where to connect sure so the

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best way and I tell you I spent months trying to come up with a description of

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what digital brand kit is because there really is nothing like it out there and trust me I’ve looked but uh digital

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brand kit is what I call it’s it’s the first of its kind TurnKey branding

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system solution that is made specifically for personal Brands and

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more specifically for women entrepreneurs so basically instead of

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you know when you get to that place where you’re like okay I need visual I need a visual identity for my brand instead of going out there and either

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piecemealing it or hiring somebody expensive to do it for you and then possibly getting weeks months for it to

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happen you can get all the assets that your business needs and I’ve proactively

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made a list of all those assets and created those assets for you but you can download all of those assets that your

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business needs in one cohesive beautiful design and you get everything in one

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instant download yeah so that that’s that’s what it is an

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inside digital brand kit uh are 12 kits right and these 12 kits map to the 12

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biggest graphic needs um that you will have most likely in your business it you know um varies depending on what exactly

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you do but your bases are covered so for example if you are doing any keynote

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speaking there is a speaker kit in there inside the speaker kit you will find beautiful slides for your speaking

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engagement a actual speaker Media Kit which you mentioned uh earlier you will

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have a a PDF download or PDF handout that you can give to your audience at

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the end of your speech so something to create those things so everything you need for your speaking is in that

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speaker kit if you are thinking about launching a podcast there is a podcast kit the podcast kit will have thumbnails

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for your podcast your branding it will have graphics for you to for your own social graphics for you to create

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audiograms all of the things that you need to post on Pinterest Etc everything you need to promote your your podcast is

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in the podcast kit so 12 kits I’m not going to go through all of them so you can go to the website and check them out but 12 kits that basically cover all of

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your graphic needs at every possible touch point that you may have with your

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your customer and that’s how you create that cohesive cohesiveness that makes you look polished and professional

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oh my gosh they’re so good and you may have already said this but if you didn’t just uh I want to because I know this

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was one of my first questions when I became a client was like everything is customizable right so when is there

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still like a video that explains how to customize fonts and colors and make it your own branding absolutely there’s an

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entire crash course um with I know people uh people’s time is uh precious and I’m very respectful

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of people’s time so all the videos are less than five minutes long typically two or three minutes and they’ll cover

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all of the things that you need to know in order to be able to customize all of these assets it’s PowerPoint so it’s

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pretty simple and intuitive um it’s a very simple design tool it’s not complex like you know Photoshop

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um but it has all the the the the you know friendly interface and an intuitive

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interface of a tool like canva but it’s got a lot more Firepower like you can do a lot more with PowerPoint than you can

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with canva so um but yeah there are videos that will show you how to to customize everything you can customize

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the colors you can change anything change the pictures it’s fully customizable yeah it’s so good and if

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you don’t have PowerPoint it’s like 6.99 a month like it’s not like just go get it you know it’s the cheapest of all the

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subscriptions definitely cheaper than Photoshop and cheaper than canvas so yeah for sure and then I’ll add uh the

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other thing is there are 10 different design collections um across four different brand seasons

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and if you don’t know what brand season you are I have a quiz that will help you figure out what that is so you just go

29:28

in answer a few questions take this quiz and it’ll tell you uh what what your brand season is it’s spring summer fall

29:35

or winter and then you get a brand report that will tell you what uh colors

29:40

we recommend and what templates we recommend based on your brand season and so you’re able to make those decisions

29:46

that way and kind of explore all the options it’s like all of the head

29:52

banging against a wall that someone would normally do with their branding you’ve helped to eliminate so Pat it’s

29:59

been a labor of love I’ve been building this for four years so uh just slowly building it and I really wanted to

30:05

create something that would make it easy because I know how hard this is for so many people that they get stuck right

30:13

here they like they get start stuck at the starting line uh you know they they’re not able to even launch anything

30:21

um or put themselves out there because they’re stuck trying you know like trying to figure out their branding and I I want to eliminate that like go go

30:28

make things happen go do it here’s all the tools that you need just go make the dream happening

30:36

and that’s it’s such a gift because I’ve like I said like I’ve seen part of the behind the scenes and I know how hard

30:42

you’ve worked on this and I know all the different moving pieces and so it’s it’s such a great opportunity and so we’ve

30:49

got a code for our listeners which from what I understand from what you shared earlier like it’s not common to get a

30:56

discount on this so I’m ex I’m excited right so okay so what is

31:02

digitalbrandkit.com Elyse and then if you use the code Elyse

31:09

10 off your purchase that’s correct so yeah digitalbracket.com Elyse and then

31:14

you just use the code Elyse 10 you get 10 off whatever you buy so yay Merry

31:20

Christmas happy birthday give yourself a discount and enjoy so

31:26

uh with that Nadine I want to ask just one final question and then we’ll tell

31:33

uh people where to go to connect with you from here so one of the things I so appreciate

31:39

about you is you’re on the journey just like all of our listeners are too and so

31:45

I know you’ve had your own entrepreneurial Journey it’s something that you know me you we’re all growing

31:52

in it as we go but looking back like what’s the number one piece of advice you would have given to younger Nadine

31:57

when she was just starting out that she really needed to hear oh that’s a good question I did not have

32:04

time to prepare for this so I didn’t give you that one ahead of time that’s intentional all right

32:10

um I would say this might sound cheesy but

32:16

it’s true it’s trust the process um uh I you know if you asked me when I

32:23

first started my first company was VR visual this is my second company digital brand kit but when I started we are

32:29

visual I wanted to see the whole staircase you know I I needed I felt like I needed

32:36

to have a very clear vision of what the end thing was going to be and uh and

32:43

that got me into trouble because I thought I was going to build this like you know traditional design agency with

32:49

an office and like cubicles and you know and all like people working there and it

32:54

was just going to be this big thing and uh and I went you know Full Speed Ahead into that vision and just hit a wall so

33:02

hard and knock me on my feet off my feet for for years and it’s because I built

33:07

myself a golden cage I built myself I escaped a nine to five job and built

33:13

myself another nine to five job and I was miserable and so if I had just let

33:20

myself let the company evolve by responding to the market and seeing what

33:25

people needed from me and letting myself figure things out and build the vision as I go

33:30

uh I would have you know saved myself a lot of heartache and so that’s what I’ve been doing with digital brand kit now I

33:36

learned my lesson I trust the process now I let I let my customers tell me what they need and I

33:43

build my business based on what they need and what makes me happy and uh and

33:48

I’m not trying to figure it out I’m trusting the process that speaks to my soul that’s like the

33:55

whole theme of what we do and teach and believe that she sells is that alignment piece like even if it worked for

34:01

somebody else is it aligned with you and is it gonna make you not just gonna make you money but is it going to make you

34:07

happy yeah like you’re trusting that so that’s that’s beautiful

34:12

so just to recap digitalbrand kit.com Elyse you can use the code Elyse 10 for

34:19

a discount on whatever it is you choose to purchase and then maybe if someone wants to connect with you on social or

34:25

follow you what’s the best way to get in touch yeah I would go to nadinehanafi.com so that’s

34:33

n-a-d-i-n-e-h-a-n-a-f-i.com and then I’m on Instagram I’m happy to DM at nadine.nafi

34:40

um and yeah I’ll be happy to connect amazing thank you so much Nadine this was so fun and thank you I’m such a

34:48

believer in your work I’m such an appreciator of your work and it was really fun to be able to share this with our community as well you’re amazing

34:54

thank you so much Elyse appreciate you lots of love and I’ll write to you my listener go take advantage of that

35:01

special deal that you can get um you’re just gonna be so excited to check out Nadine’s work to invest in up

35:09

leveling your brand your business with digital brand kid it really is one of my favorite entrepreneur tools I’ve ever

35:15

come across which is why I wanted to have Nadine come on the show today so as always thank you so much for being a

35:21

member of the She Sells Community I will see you on our next episode bye for now