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How Top Performers Master Sales Skills w/ Practice Lab Co-founders Jonathan Mahan and Jordana Zeldin

Have you ever had one of those dreaded moments on a client sales call where they give you an objection and you realize you are completely fumbling your way through it? That’s what my whole early sales career was built on and mistakes are certainly part of the process. Unfortunately, I know I lost a lot of deals and opportunities I could have won and could have helped people if I had better tools in my toolkit.

That’s why today’s guests are here! Jonathan Mahan and Jordana Zeldin are the cofounders of The Practice Lab. The Practice Lab is a place where sellers come together to develop their selling skills in the same ways performers, athletes, and musicians develop theirs. They practice with their peers, not their prospects.

For anyone excited to try on this approach to skill building for themselves, Jonathan and Jordana have recently launched a free monthly meet-up called The Practice Club where you can sharpen your sales skills in the same ways discussed during this episode. Sign up for their next practice session here:


Show Notes:

[2:35] – Jonathan shares an experience that created the idea for The Practice Lab.
[4:17] – If Jonathan wanted to become the seller he wanted to be, he knew he needed to actually practice. He reached out to friends to practice together.
[5:18] – Jordana shares her background and how she found herself in sales.
[7:32] – By breaking down the sales conversation into bite sized chunks, Jordana couldn’t unsee the difference and the impact on her own self confidence.
[10:01] – In many sales environments, sellers are required to follow a script strictly.
[11:20] – There are different types of scripts and the extent to which you plan it out dictates how scripted and rehearsed you come across to clients.
[12:20] – Practice does not always mean memorization and scripts.
[13:50] – The most powerful selling skills are human skills.
[16:07] – The skill sets that women naturally bring to sales don’t typically get celebrated, but they are strong human skills that translate to sales strongly.
[17:07] – You can train your curiosity to ask questions about more impactful skills.
[19:30] – You can see the parallels between sales conversations and other life scenarios.
[21:32] – We want to know a customer’s problems to help them solve them, but we are strangers. We need to be grateful that they want to share.
[24:21] – The three steps are to welcome, empathize, and ask questions to understand.
[25:19] – An objection could actually be the thing that pushes the conversation forward.
[27:29] – Your emotional state is so important.
[30:26] – Connect with the emotion that you want to convey in a conversation and say it outloud. Visualize the outcome.
[33:10] – We have a lot more leeway in conversations and can make humbling disclaimers.
[35:20] – You can be fragile, robust, or antifragile in your responses.
[37:50] – The Practice Lab offers a lot of opportunities and Jordana shares what they are and how they can benefit your process.

Connect with Practice Lab:

Links and Resources:

DM me on Instagram @elysearcher



Welcome to She Sells Radio so I have a question for you today have you ever had


one of those dreaded moments on a client sales call where you get an objection and you realize you are completely


fumbling your way through it the only reason I would know anything about that


is that is pretty much what my whole early sales career was built on and I


know you know you if you’ve been following me you know kind of my background in sales and some of the accomplishments I’ve had and you also


maybe don’t know all the things I screwed up early on and continue to still kind of fumble my way through in


certain moments for sure and I’ve made a lot of mistakes along the way and they are definitely part of the process but I


also know that I have lost deals and lost opportunities that I could have


probably of course not only made the money on but also really help people if I had better Tools in my toolkit and so


that’s why I’m so excited to bring you two amazing guests today who believe


that you should practice with your peers not on your prospects so Jonathan and Jordana are the co-founders of the


practice lab a place where sellers come together to develop their selling skills in the same way that performers athletes


and musicians develop theirs Jonathan enjoy Anna I’m so excited to have you on the show today welcome to she sells


radio thank you yeah I’m so glad to be here this is it’s always fun too when I have


co-founders because it’s like we get to hear different angles and different aspects and and all of that so this will


be really good so okay I think let’s just talk origin’s story here briefly like I want to hear from


both of you a little bit of your background what got the two of you together and what created the


inspiration for the practice lab I guess I’ll I’ll start with that so


um the practice that I really started maybe about 18 months ago I actually started a


new sales role at company and I was going through their onboarding and really there was three things that kind


of happened at the same time um which which birthed this project so the onboarding videos that I would watch in


the morning were really good videos right like really good training they talked about the right behaviors talked about talk to us about how to handle


objections What discovery questions to ask how to talk about pricing competitors it was good stuff I’d have


lunch I’d go take a walk I’d use like the gong app to listen to recorded calls as I walked and I would listen to the


recalls of my actual peers you know that were going on on a day-to-day basis and there was almost no overlap between


what we were all being taught and what people were actually doing on your sales calls and it was this really strong


reminder to me that there’s a really big gap between like intellectually understanding something and knowing what


good looks like and knowing what you should be doing and actually having the skill set necessary to pull it off in a


real conversation and I recognize the same Gap in myself right I’m a pretty avid reader and listener of podcasts and I know all sorts of sales Theory but


when I watch my real calls they do leave a lot to be desired right a lot of that theory doesn’t show up in my execution


so that was during the day and the third thing is that in the evening I was reading a book called Peak a labor a


book called it the Talent Code which is very similar both these books are by researchers who have spent decades studying top performers in a variety of


industries from you know acting to music to sports to chess you name it and


studying what it takes to become the very best of the best right how do you get to the top one percent of whatever your your field is


and of course in those books they talked about the gap between knowing and doing between understanding and execution and


in every other discipline the way that Gap is closed is through a particular type of focused deliberate practice


so I realized for myself that I really needed this if I was going to become the seller I wanted to be I needed to


practice my selling skills not just you know hop into a sales call and do my best and then repeat the next day


so the very earliest seat of the practice lab is I was actually working like I reached out with some colleagues of mine who were also on boarding was


like Hey guys if you want to come practice with me once a week and we started doing that and that felt really good so at that point I really have to


draw Ghana because she had a bit of a background in sales and practice and she was a sales trainer and kind of asked her if she wanted to offer this kind of


to our LinkedIn networks and one thing led to another and you know what became kind of a hobby suddenly became a side hustle what was the side hustle


something became a business yeah as it goes I love it I love it it’s


yeah it’s it’s so needed and I can relate to a lot of what you shared so Jordana from kind of I know you’re a


sales trainer that’s your background like what’s your journey been like getting here yeah I mean it’s interesting so I’m one


of those people that tripped and fell into sales and never ever imagined I would be in sales in my entire life I started out in the art world and was in


theater and and running an Arts non-profit fall into sales when an art tech company needed some people who


could speak the language of the art world so I came in and was so interesting is that for the first year


on the sales team I did just like I just did not feel it like I felt a little bit embarrassed about being in sales I


wasn’t really bringing myself to my selling conversations our team was very split off like we would take all of our


sales conversations in like these startupy style phone booths so no one ever


had the opportunity to really hear like what other people sounded like we didn’t hear victories we didn’t hear failures


we didn’t hear awkward attempts and the entire the entire position really just


felt like it wasn’t quite a match for me and what I was wanting and I was thinking about leaving sales until


this incredible incredible head of sales came in and the very first thing that he


did literally was take us out of our phone booths and into the sales pit so we could start to hear each other and he


would offer feedback and coaching on the fly in public so that we got to hear what he was listening for and how he was


coaching everybody to improve and we practice together we role played


we started to support each other in a way as a team that we just hadn’t in the


year prior and through the practice through the camaraderie through the


feedback developed a culture of feedback on the team where all of the feedback wasn’t just coming from the sales leader it was coming from each other and we


started to soar we started to feel like we belonged in our selling we started to become more skillful there was a level


of psychological safety on the team that was established by way of all of our hearing our messy attempts and failures


and wins Anna was contagious and it was then and there that I decided or kind of


realized that I got as much if not more gratification from coaching and developing my teammates as I did my own


sales wins and when I left and moved on from that position to become a sales


coach I found myself at a practice-based sales training company that took a


similar approach not the same one that we take in the practice lab and it was like once I saw the impact that breaking


down the sales conversation into bite-sized chunks had and once I became a coach the facilitated practice rather


than just conversation or explanation it was like I couldn’t unsee how much


improvement there was both in terms of skill and also confidence so when Jonathan reached out to me it’s like we


both had this understanding that practice was what was needed and came together to you know to offer this to to


sellers all over the place now you said something to Jordana there that I want to go back to you said in that role like


before the great director of sales came in you weren’t really and I think what you said is you weren’t really bringing


all of yourself to the sales calls in so many words what does that mean like I


want you to go a little deeper in what that would was like for you I think we all had this idea especially


because we were selling to galleries who are a little Elite and a little snooty like that we had to almost like


be some kind of character version of ourselves like speak the language of the gallery adopt adopt the tone adopt the


way of being and I’m just not that way and most of us on the team weren’t that way but we had such a I don’t know if it


was a fear or issues around status about what it meant to call into these big galleries that we left we thought we had


to leave ourselves at the door and what was so interesting is that this head of sales had no experience in the art world


at all so he didn’t have the same kind of reverence or fear that we had of these prospects and he just insisted


that we dropped the mask and be the same person that that we were five minutes


when we were joking around with a teammate you know as we were on the phone with our Prospect and that permission that humor that lightness


uh that allowance to show up as we were be it quirky or a little stumbly or


imperfect was like the unlock at least for me for really feeling like


alive in the work I guess because when you spend eight hours a day feeling like you have to be someone else in order to


perform that affects everything how well you perform in your selling conversations how you feel in your life


totally and that’s always I wanna Jonathan I want to ask you this question


first then we’ll we’ll pop it over to Jordana but you know to me that’s always been a bit of like the rub with scripts


and I came from a background of very heavily scripted sales conversations where it was like you you can’t deviate


like you literally don’t deviate from the script and I remember one of my more painful moments


that really hurt me in my heart was I was talking to a great guy great Prospect he’d seen me


speak somewhere and we were on a sales conversation about him signing up for coaching and the script that the company was very


adamant that we use it it always felt a little off to me but they were so adamant that we used it I was like okay I’m gonna just follow the Playbook I’m


gonna say what’s being said and as I’m like going through the like the price build up he pauses me and he’s like


could you just stop reading from a script and talk to me like I’m a real person wow and I remember in that moment


I was like oh okay it’s not feeling good to me I don’t feel like I can be myself it’s clearly not feeling good to him


either so what is that I want to hear from both of you like obviously you’re helping people hone their skills you’re


helping them develop they’re like the right words to say but what is that sweet spot in your opinion


between being scripted and then having like being able to bring ourselves to that


how do you help people find that Jonathan I’ll turn it to you first yeah there’s two things flowing through


my mind right one um one is that I would say the degree to which you pre-plan out


what you’re going to say and script it right um and there’s you know varying degrees of a pure script versus more of


a loose talk track um you know versus just a framework but the extent to which you plan it out I think has a lot to do


with how predictable that moment the conversation is um for example if you’re opening your


first call right it’s like an introduction ring call you probably have like what 10 of those a week or maybe more maybe less depending your business


and they tend to go the same way each time that’s one you pretty much can if not script that word for alert at least


you know lay out the framework of what bullet points you’re gonna hit it’s always going to be the same so you can prepare for that with kind of traditional rehearsal type practicing


um some things that are a little bit less predictable best examples like a discovery call right or some you know


Auto left field objection you haven’t heard before is another unpredictable one you can’t really practice for those by you know preparing in advance what


you’re going to say right so kind of this transition the second thing that runs through my mind is that


um practice does not necessarily mean rehearsal right practice does not necessarily mean a script it certainly


can but think about other disciplines where uh where they still practice but there’s no script let’s say you’re a


martial artist about to go into a competition it’s not scripted what you or your opponent are going to do but they still practice right if you’re a


freestyle rapper nothing scripted that you’re gonna say but you can still practice right if you’re an improv comedian nothing scripted but you can


still practice so practice doesn’t necessarily mean you’re you’re an actor holding a book of lines reciting them


right there are ways to practice we’re just fundamentally working on your neurological skills your linguistic skills you’re just improving the piece


of Hardware that is your brain so that when you land in those unpredictable situations you’ll be be able to handle them better because of all the practice


that went in advance so there is a time and a place for you know rehearsals so to speak for scripts but again there’s a


lot more to practice than just that that’s a really good point it’s like a it’s a higher level context to what’s going on here again because obviously


you all work with people in different companies so it’s like they have their own talking points they have their own


scripts they’re bringing in right but it’s it goes beyond that as well so Jordana yeah what would you end up I was


just also going to say two at least like this idea about giving yourself permission to to bring yourself into your selling you know oftentimes for


some reason people think that sales skills are like different than than human skills like


things that work in selling only work in selling so they’re these sales hacks or these tips or these tactics right but


what Jonathan and I have found is that the things that are most effective in selling and the things that that we


teach in the practice lab are only effective because they’re human skills that are regularly employed and can


certainly be regularly developed in all aspects of our lives so you know all too


often sellers will think about Discovery as like this checklist of predetermined questions that have to be asked rather


than thinking like what does it feel like to be actively listening in a conversation


and then to feel curious about something like in my like just literally curious


and then to allow that Curiosity to fuel a question that I can ask that digs at


some of the more interesting deeper things that we all know motivate human beings maybe it’s about around impact or


about the emotional tenor of a you know of a decision or a purchase or what’s really you know how whatever is going on


in an organization that you’re selling to might be causing other problems let’s say but in absence of understanding and


giving yourself the permission and Discovery to be in a conversation with a human being asking questions fueled by


curiosity it can be kind of hard to effectively do Discovery because you feel locked right into a checklist or a


framework so I think it’s important as we talk about bringing ourselves into into our


selling and we even talk about sales skills as first and foremost recognizing their effectiveness because they’re


fundamentally good human skills and then in the process of practicing and


developing skills that allow us to be a better and more effective salesperson we’re also practicing and developing


skills that allow us to be better human beings as well so appreciate that you share that because that to me is some of the gifts


that I see in our community that oftentimes through conditioning whether it’s you had a like


just really not great sales manager who was like just stick to the script and don’t like you to me I’m a big believer


in using intuition in the sales process and I understand it that’s hard to manage it’s hard to teach when you’re


teaching a large group of sales professionals but to me like journey into what you just said following the


curiosity asking the question um and we have you know we have a very diverse audience that listens to our


podcast a lot of our audience identifies as being a woman and so it’s like when I think about the skill sets that a lot of


times women naturally bring to sales it are it’s listening it’s empathy right


it’s some of those more human skill sets that sometimes we don’t they don’t get celebrated or they almost get like


stomped out in the teaching the process so what are some of those other human


skills that you see translating to sales as sales skills that we may not even think about as sales skills I’ll turn it


over to either of you who wants to jump in and answer that go for it Jonathan um yeah I mean like you know three that


that I jump out right away that you know we have uh Labs built to train people on


and to help people practice on is listening and how you listen right is a huge one it’s not just a matter of like


more and less listening like there’s different styles of listening which have different effects on your partner um so listening is one curiosity is a


huge one um but not just part of it is just like the sense of curiosity at all but then


also part of it is you can kind of train your curiosity to become curious about the right things right to become curious


about things that really matter um you can train your curiosity to do that so when someone’s sharing something with you and they say something the


questions that pop into your mind are questions about deeper level impact are questions about you know how this


problem is affecting them and their business and their lives and you can have more productive conversations because again you’ve trained your curiosity to get curious about more


interesting impactful stuff empathy is certainly one right there’s a lot that goes on in empathy from just


like the physical observation of signs and cues but also just kind of internal processing and your mirror neurons


knowing what to do with those signals when they come in so those are big ones um there’s something else I don’t know


how well I would describe it something I’ve stumbled on recently is there’s a certain


I don’t know mental emotional gymnastics you have you have to do in sales where you get very attached to the outcome of


working with someone but not in the traditional way sales people get attached to an outcome which is I need the sale to headquarter I want the sale


to make money it’s being attached to the outcome for the other person’s sake it’s having the mental ability to say you


know what yes there’s you know incentives in it for me but I’m going to temporarily just set those aside not focus on them I’m going to focus all of


my energy on the other person in their situation and why this Arrangement right


this partnership would be really good for them and I’m gonna let myself get like locked into and almost you know uh


develop affection for that idea right and like fall in love with the idea of working with them and having a


partnership and helping them with their problems and really get connected to it for their reasons and then convey that


passion that you have for this shared vision of this vision of working together convey it to them


and again to to do that to put yourself in the mind frame where you’re temporarily setting aside your own


incentives and you’re instead choosing to really get mentally and emotionally bought into this Vision that benefits them I don’t know what the word for that


is there probably is no word for that but like I found that is hugely powerful in sales when you can get to that point


right because all too often what we see are generally speaking it’s sellers who are all caught up in the outcome for


their reasons right occasionally we see sellers who are just detaching the outcome and just don’t care like whatever buy it or don’t but that


doesn’t help inspire people to take action right so that sweet spot is definitely allowing yourself to get captivated and caught up by the idea of


how beautiful it would be to work with this person but again maintaining those boundaries that you’re only focusing on


it for their reasons not yours so that may have been a really long tangent but that’s something that I’ve stumbled into


recently which again you can see the parallels between other aspects of life right anyone in your life that you’re trying to help anyone in your life that


you’re trying to motivate them to make a change in their life whether it’s your children or your siblings or you know uh


friends that’s it’s a very human skill right to be able to fall in love with a vision and convey that passion to


someone else but to do it for their reasons rather than your own reasons that’s that’s really powerful and we


just happen to be in a profession in sales where that same skill set is needed to succeed but again you can take


that skill set elsewhere and you know motivate your kids to do their homework or motivate your friend to you know


exercise more or start a business who knows what right you can use that motivational skill anywhere I’m gonna


try that on our toddler tonight and see what happens fall in love with the vision of your


dinner two it takes the pressure off of you


right as the seller as the because when we make it about ourselves that’s when we feel the pressure so Jordana anything


you would add to that in terms of human skills I mean another another really


interesting human skill that comes up in a surprising place for us is gratitude and we insert it at the moment of


objection which might seem kind of crazy and counterintuitive like yeah yeah so you get an objection from a from a prospect


and of course in your mind the first instinct is like where can I swear on this podcast


right like this isn’t what I wanted this is going to derail my sale this is where the relationship ends this is where


everything that I’ve been counting on gets lost right but we teach that there’s there’s a slightly different


mindset that you can take centered in gratitude which before you think about your own outcomes is first in


appreciation and an acknowledgment that they told you what was on their mind at all because we often forget like in


these sales conversations maybe our sales manager or maybe we ourselves a solopreneurs think like we have to


figure out what our you know what our prospects paying our challenges are but we’re a perfect stranger and they don’t


owe us that right so even the fact that they’re opening up about their pains and challenges at all in the context of a


sales conversation to see if we can help them we someone who is financially invested in being the solution for their


problems right not the safest thing there can be some gratitude there but when a prospect voice is an objection if


we Express gratitude that they said what was on their mind what was authentically going on for them rather than say


nodding smiling and ghosting us that allows us to shift our mindset a


little bit around both the mutual respect that’s shown in the relationship and the Timbre of our response so in the


objection handling framework that we teach what we really focus on is everything that you do before you


suggest the perspective that you hope will change their mind that is really designed to lower their resistance


increase their receptivity and feelings of safety so at the very least they’re open to hearing what you have to say


when that moment comes so it’s that beat of gratitude internally just I’m so glad they they


share this with me because now at least we can have a conversation about something then the next step is actively


thanking them we call it welcome you know really glad you shared what’s on your mind I so


appreciate your transparency whatever that looks like and then the next step rather than attempting to overcome or


asking like a gotcha question right to back them into a corner is literally to ask some questions in service of true


deeper authentic understanding because if we understand more about why our prospects are objecting not only do


we gather more information that we could then use to more effectively and in a tailored way eventually attempt to shift


their perspective if that’s what’s needed but in the process of making it our Focus to understand them


they in turn feel understood rather than overcome which in itself does wonders for how


open receptive and safe someone will feel yeah I love that I’ve never enjoyed


the term overcoming objections right it just feels very forceful in its approach


so I’d love if we could play that out a little bit here so you said when someone shares that expressing


gratitude and then truly from a place of curiosity going deeper let’s say that


somebody’s listening and let’s say she’s uh let’s say she’s a coach and she gets a money objection from a client like I’d


love to do this you know I’d love to do this program I just don’t know how I’m going to pay for it I don’t know


where the money is going to come from can you give an example of how you would go deeper in how you would approach that


yeah yeah Jonathan you’re you’re great at coming up with these on the Fly I’m gonna pass over to you sure yeah so the


the three steps right are to welcome empathize and ask questions understand so it might start off with


hey thanks for being real with me about that Elise uh I get it right times are tough so thank you for being transparent


um and I get it right the economy is slowing down um you guys have a lot of a lot of expenses you got to pay attention to so I imagine it would be tough to


allocate a significant sum like this I’m curious when you’re thinking about how to allocate limited funds to make it


through you know and kind of Thrive next year how are you thinking about that and what are some of the priorities and things that you’re you’re weighing


um oh you want me to play it out with you should we go deeper good enough probably good enough and


that you know may not be the most beautiful same question I ever asked but um you know first I welcomed it I kind


of empathize with their thinking and what they were going through in that moment and then again I asked a question to kind of keep the conversation going


because that told me the goal of this right is to lower defenses increase receptivity but most importantly keep


the conversation going because if you handle it in that way an objection can be the beginning of the most powerful


fruitful productive conversation you’ve had with that Prospect right rather than being the end of the conversation with a


relationship dies but it’s usually just getting past that initial hurdle right to the point where they do keep talking and the


conversation does keep going on so those three beats of Welcome empathize and understand um are what allows the conversation to


keep going and sometimes you keep going down the conversation you keep talking you find that yeah in fact it doesn’t make sense to work together but at least


now you as a seller have the satisfaction of knowing that yes in fact it didn’t make sense I didn’t just lose this before salesmanship it truly is the


circumstances that are making us part ways but in some cases you find that you know their perspective can be shifted or what


they’re concerned about there is a way around it and then you do find a way to work together um but again you’d never know that if


the conversation ended with sorry I don’t have the money so this is a three-step process for again opening them up and keeping people talking which


again to Joy down this point starts with gratitude you can try to do this from


like a fearful grabby mindset but it’s gonna be really really hard so taking


just one second of Silence to Center in that feeling of gratitude of like wow it’s tough to be the bearer of bad news


and they chose to do that tough thing and because of that we’re having to have this conversation I’m so glad I have a


chance to have this conversation with them like just centering on those feelings can totally shift the rest of


the conversation it takes guts to share an objection it’s vulnerable to share an objection you


know if you have a friend in your life who comes to you and has the guts to tell you that something you shared with


them heard or upset them let’s say you know if you just say yeah well the last time you said this that upset me


that’s instantly gonna cause them to close up but if you instead say I’m so glad you’re sharing this with me I can


so understand why when I said that thing it really hurt your feelings


it’s a completely different Dynamic and that’s why again it works with kids it works with friends that is why human to


human that approach is effective in sales as well good and the piece that I’m thinking


about here too is like one of the things we teach so much in the community is just about the importance of your emotional state and we’re not going to


go to we’re not going to go into quantum physics and the feeling State and all of that too far like today but it is so


important this is something that Joe dispenza teaches is you can’t think greater than your emotional state so if


you go into a fear state or you go into a scarcity State you’re not going to have like in that moment when they give


you that objection you’re not going to be able to lead that powerfully and help them get to where they need to be but if


you can take a moment to Center in that feeling of gratitude your thoughts will be more elevated you’ll be able to think


greater solutions for them greater questions to ask and stay in that state that’s in alignment with the ultimate


goal you’re both going for so yeah that’s a I’ve never heard it taught that


way before I think that’s super compelling and interesting absolutely interesting you you mentioned that you


know like you you can’t think and therefore can’t act at a level higher than your emotional state


um you know we’ve found that’s very true of cold calling where you can talk to people all day long about here’s a great talk track to use or you can talk to


them about the importance of confidence or about the importance of slowing down you can tell people their pitches their


their tone right is very important but ultimately if you’re in a frazzled panicked fearful state


there’s really no one out there who can like just willfully force all of their verbal and non-verbal cues right that


they’re sending out through the communication to align the way they want it’s it’s not quite a waste of your time


because you can make some progress but you’re not going to get very far if you ignore your internal State and just focus on these are the words this is the


tone this is the speed I’m just going to practice practice and ignore the internal state so we actually have like


specific Labs or exercises designed to help people with cold calling and we


spend half our practice time practicing the internal State practicing the mindset the emotions you know having


people use tools that are familiar to other disciplines where mindset’s important and we’re applying them to the


world of sales so it’s mantras it’s visualizations it’s recalling like emotional memories to first get your


emotions in tune and then you jump into your practice round and you you know you try out your words and you practice your


tone but like it starts with getting the emotions dialed in and that’s been really cool for us it’s new for us right


we’d always kind of skip the emotion piece and just focus is on behaviors so now this last this last you know lab or


this last cohort it’s the first time we’ve done that and it has been really powerful and people have consistently you know rated that part is the most


impactful part of the experience was focusing on their internal state oh I’m so glad you all are doing that I


love this I love this what are um let’s do like maybe one or two things that you teach people to do to enter


into that emotional state before they go into their cold calls or their Discovery Jordana I’ll turn it to you to share


yeah sure so we we teach kind of three ways in one is a mantra right like affirming


with words the state that you want to be in in order to pull off let’s say the vibe or the tone you want to convey on


the call so it might just be like I am so confident right now right or like I have never felt more excited to go into


this cold calling block and when you say these words and science shows this right like you can shift your state right it


can become your reality so that’s one um another one is is visualizing a


successful outcome you know imagine that your prospect is really excited to hear from you like oh my God I was just thinking about you guys so glad you


called right um or you could imagine entering uh your prospect’s name into your CRM and like


booking a meeting and passing it off to your account executive if you’re on a sales team and then another really really powerful way to emotionally Prime


yourself and actors use this all the time is to look back and remember a time when you felt blank and it could be a


sales time where you had the most incredible cold call or the most incredible Discovery call and you Vibe so hard with your your prospect and


everything worked out but it can also be totally outside of a sales context like a time your friend made you feel really


good or um you know that that time in high school when you’re on a soccer team and scored that goal and it just felt


incredible like all of those tools allow you to begin to shift your emotional


state because only seven percent of communication so they say is in words


right and this is true on phone calls too so when you’re calling somebody out of the blue there’s a lot happening in


your tonality and it can be very hard to force your your tonality if as Jonathan


said there’s fear nervousness Terror dread going on inside and people feel it too they’ll feel it


so you feel it you can’t fake it you can’t fake it oh my gosh yeah not at all okay this is so good I want to ask one


final kind of topic question will tell people how they can connect with you further and get involved


um with your work but I want to talk about the like overcoming the fear of


making mistakes because this is this is a conversation I’ve been having with my clients a lot lately like specifically


around money I’ve had a lot of people kind of getting past that battle of fear of making mistakes around money and


investing and kind of like helping people get into more of an abundance mindset there but I want to talk about fear of making mistakes with a prospect


right and how often does that probably hold us back have us not show up to our best selves so what are what’s a mindset


switch that you help clients achieve when it comes to overcoming that fear


I’ll turn it over to whoever wants to jump in and answer first you know so I’ll just share that that one way you


know that’s kind of the hypothesis of part of why we exist to make fewer mistakes on the phone with prospects is


a is of course to practice however I actually think you know as sellers


selling to other human beings that we have a lot more leeway than we think on sales calls and that if we ask a


discovery question that like feels a little awkward in our body or lands a little poorly we can say you know what


I don’t think that question sounded very good do you mind if we like rewind the tape and and I ask a question that


really gets to the heart of what I want to know about right or even using things


um our our friend and a colleague in the space Charles malbauer often talks about


um The Humbling disclaimer which is a little phrase that you can insert in advance of say asking a


difficult question which in some ways is very humanizing and and allows your prospect more often than not to give you


a pass and it sounds something like um you know at the risk of asking a really salesy question I’m curious like


back of the envelope like how much revenue do you imagine this is costing you right it’s that at the risk of


asking you a salesy question or I don’t even know how to phrase this as a


question but I’m finding myself really curious about like how the morale on the


rest of your team is going with all of these layoffs I don’t know how to phrase this or this might sound like a foolish


question but so if you’re uncomfortable you can actually name your discomfort


and uh that that other human being on the other end of the line is more often than not wanting to kind of jump in and


and rescue you and make it okay it’s very disarming like in a great way


yeah I would imagine I’m just thinking about being on the other side of that you would feel a certain level of


humanity and can literally that person because we’ve all we’ve all been there and they’re making it more real so yeah


awesome tips Jonathan anything you would add to that this kind of Strays off the path of


sales and practice and all that and it’s just something that I’ve found is powerful for myself as I kind of start


off in my entrepreneurial Journey here of course we are also you know afraid of making mistakes so to speak


um it’s a concept that I first learned in a book by Nasim telev called


anti-fragile and the way he explains it is that fragile things are damaged by


stressors right imagine a wine glass breaking robust things are generally unaffected by stressors imagine a brick


right drop it’s not going to break anti-fragile things grow stronger because of stressors right human bones


are a great example of that right athletes have some of the densest bones out there because of all the stress their bones are under so he encourages whenever something


happens typically something unpleasant unplanned or undesirable happens ask yourself like what’s a fragile response


to this where I’m gonna be harmed what’s the robust response where I can get by just fine but then ask yourself what’s


the anti-fragile response to this how can I use this to be better off because of it happening


and I’ve been adopting that thinking ever since we started this project and literally every time we make a mistake one of the steps we take is we ask


ourselves okay that just happened is there any way we can be better off because it happened and sometimes we


find great answers we are way better off because a mistake happened sometimes it doesn’t go so great but we at least recover from it but like that mindset of


every time a bad thing happens or mistake happens asking yourself how can I benefit from this once you’ve done


that a few times and once you’ve seen some success with that and you’ve actually turned a few mistakes into wins you suddenly aren’t nearly as afraid to


make State mistakes anymore because you’re like all right I’ll do my due diligence to try to make sure this is a mistake but at the end of the day I know


that if it does end of being a mistake I’ll find a way to turn it to a good thing and that just gives you so much confidence right as you move forward


through life into your business knowing that you can have that anti-federal response to just finding a mistake that


you make such a good perspective shift I love how sales translates to life in every single


way that’s why it’s so interesting I feel like that’s why we’re here like if we were just talking about selling a widget


for cash like would the three of us be having this conversation here you know so much bigger than today knowing the


three of us we might get into it maybe but you’re exactly right yeah it’s so much bigger it’s so much bigger so


Jonathan Jordan tell everyone where can they go to connect with you to find out more about the practice lab how they can


get involved and I want to also ask is this something that if you’re an entrepreneur maybe you’re doing


founder-led sales can you still benefit by getting involved what does that look like like who do you serve and how can


someone get involved yeah so well first of all I’ll say that Jonathan and I are very active on


LinkedIn um we’re talking regularly about practice and so many of these ideas so you could follow us there


um you can learn more about the program at the we also on the third Wednesday of every


month host a free objection handling training called wheel of objections where you have a chance to learn about


and then try on for size uh the very framework that we talked about uh you


know in the conversation with you in collaboration with practice Partners from across the B2B landscape and then


you know thirdly yes you know Founders and and solopreneurs are very much Sellers and all of us can benefit from


growing more awareness around the fundamental human behaviors that have the biggest impact on our conversations


and our relationships with our Prospect so we would welcome anyone who’s listening who’s curious and wants to


apply to Future cohorts to reach out and do so amazing


this was such a fun conversation and I just want to say I appreciate both of you and the work you’re doing I think


you know I love that I feel like the people I’m connecting with right now through the podcasts and through social


it’s like there’s a common mission to kind of raise the level of Consciousness in the world of sales and business and


you both are very much doing that um through the practice lab so thank you for what you’ve created and for coming


on today and sharing so generously it’s been really really enlightening and also um just so fun to get to know you know


to get to the new jordiana to see you again Jonathan and to have this conversation so thank you both thanks so much Elise thanks for having


us on absolutely absolutely so to you my listener we will link everything in the


show notes to go get connected with Jonathan and Jordana connect with them on social on LinkedIn you can check out


the practice lab we’ll link that as well I love the wheel of objection so that sounds like an amazing thing to join in


on the third Wednesday of the month and um yeah get connected get the support


that you need to help really really hone your skills and help serve more people through your sales process so as always


thank you so much for being a listener of the podcast you can always go get connected with me and what we’re doing


over at find out more about our programs for women to help scale to six and then seven figures and


Beyond so grateful to have you in the community we’ll see you on our next episode of She Sells Radio. Bye for now.

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