How to Get Unstuck and Create Your New Level w/ Diann Wingert

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Hello, hello well we have a very special different type of interview for you

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today and I say we because we’re doing something on the podcast that we haven’t really done before and so if you’re

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listening to my show She Sells Radio you know me I’m Elyse, I’m your host but we

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are also joined by an incredible guest slash co-host because Diann’s going to

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be producing this for her own show as well so Diann you want to say hi and introduce yourself

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this is Diann Wingert of the driven woman entrepreneur podcast and I guess we are kind of co-hosting today but it’s

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all a big experiment so let’s have fun it is and I’m I’m excited for this for a

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number of reasons and I think Diann you were just sharing with me before we hit record some really big takeaways that

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right away I think our listeners can, can benefit from so I want to get into

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those in a second before I do I’ll give just a little bit of context for the interview and what we’re you know what

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we’re doing here so this can make sense because I know we’re both going to be airing this on our respective shows and

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so I was looking a little while back I was doing like a little bit of online stalking and just looking for top

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podcasts for female entrepreneurs and your show came up like right at the top of the ranks and first of all that’s

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impressive because there’s so many shows out there for female entrepreneurs so you have built something really really

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incredible and I remember researching your show and looking into your audience and I was

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like oh my gosh like I love her no BS approach I love how direct she is I love

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her street cred too and thinking that your audience was in many ways there was

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overlap between your audience and mine and you obviously work with a lot of female entrepreneurs coaches consultants

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solopreneurs which we’ve got quite a few of those who listen here too and I thought wouldn’t it be fun to do a swap

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and so we had actually arranged to do a podcast swap for tomorrow and then my

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sweet husband Jason because tomorrow at the time of this recording tomorrow’s Valentine’s Day he was like hey babe you’re free all a Valentine’s Day right

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I was like it’s a Tuesday and I generally like I love you I I appreciate the romance I

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generally have things planned but he had some stuff planned for us throughout the day and so you were flexible and it was like hey let’s hop

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on today and let’s let’s record one episode together and and I’m excited

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for this Sunday and you had pulled these three powerful kind of bits of learning that I think right away like we’re gonna

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give some context for who we both are for each other’s audiences but right away I’d love if you you want to dive in

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and share some of what you shared with me before we were recording because I thought it was so powerful absolutely you know very infrequently do things go

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exactly as we had planned in our business in our lives so when the unexpected happens and something you’ve

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been very much looking forward to like our interview exchange our pod swap had

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a threat of being cancelled it was either going to be an opportunity to indulge in disappointment or shift into creative

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problem solving and Elyse provided the opportunity to do door number two so I

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think one of the takeaways for how we made this happen in the way that we made it happen is that we always have the

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opportunity to respond instead of react but not only that if we never take risks

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and exercise vulnerability we’re never really going to know what level of trust

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and self-confidence we’re capable of I have to be clear this is our very first meeting even though we’ve had a few

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email exchanges so did it require a little bit of trust and a little bit of vulnerability to take the risk and do

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something I’ve never done before which is a co-hosted interview you better believe it but I am here for the growth

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and the learning and lastly I’m always intrigued by the possibility that I can get the same or even better

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results with less time and effort and it would have taken us twice as long to record two separate interviews so I’m

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here for all of it I love all of that so much I don’t know do you know Laura

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Meyer by any chance not yet uh you two should know each other she’s been a guest on the show she said I think you

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two would be super aligned but she said to me something a while back about just networking and getting

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to know people and she said I don’t do General networking which I I don’t really do either like to me like there

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needs to be a purpose there needs to be an intention but she said if I do I record it I’m like hey let’s record it let’s make it a podcast interview and

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she’s built a very successful business that way as well just with being very intentional about networking and

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relationship building and so I think to your point of how do we get the same or

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better results with less time and effort it’s all about efficacy right which you want to be thinking about for the growth

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of our businesses so why don’t why don’t we do this because again we’re kind of ebbing and flowing here and we’re having

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fun and we’re figuring it out as we go so I know my listeners will appreciate

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that and yours probably will too I think people like an authentic conversation but Diann let’s give some background

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on you share a little bit more about who you are what you do what I know you transitioned from therapist into coach

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right so I’d love to hear a little bit more about that Journey for my audience actually there was an earlier transition

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my very first career was in medical sales so I got trained how to sell to smart

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people mainly Physicians I had a second career as a psychotherapist and a

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professor of social work I was in that career for quite a long time the last five years of it was in a private

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practice where I mainly worked with powerful women at that point I realized I had kind of

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outgrown the role of being the support person and I wanted to be the person who would

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start challenging people so what the way I phrase it is I shifted from focusing the conversation on problems to

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possibilities because as a coach I can be much Bolder I can be more

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confrontational but in a good way and instead of accepting someone’s limiting

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beliefs about what’s going on in their life I could directly challenge them and say now we both know that’s not true

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so the type of coaching that I do really helps people who are really ready to let

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go of whatever is holding them back and you and I both know oftentimes that’s not the lack of skill it’s the lack of

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Will and the mindset so true it’s so true and you said

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something I want to Circle back to a bit or we could do you know we could dive into now just the

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your Readiness to transition from being sounds like I think you said the support person writer the person behind the

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scenes to really being in the center stage I know that for me was when a lot

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shifted in my life and it took a lot to get there it took like a lot of getting fed up with not living I talk

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about like the fullest expression of myself um and there’s definitely a lot of elements of playing small in that and

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then I know for our community too that is that’s a Common Thread is that

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people are done playing small yes maybe you can Riff on that a little bit and

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talk about what you see with with your clients and in your own life like how that transition occurred and was it

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scary to finally say no like I’m gonna step into the spotlight of my own life and do this

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thing big well I will say one of the things that I think served me is that

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it’s undeniable that with the passage of time as a woman fewer opportunities are coming your way so I last worked for

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someone else when I was in an executive position running a large mental health agency and the CEO that I reported to

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was both incompetent and unethical and since I am neither of those things that presented a problem now at that time I

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knew based on my age and my stage of career if I went out looking for another job it was very likely that I was going

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to experiencing something similar or worse so I needed to bank on myself and

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start my own business for the first time in my early 50s I had zero experience

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running a business I was going to have to generate all of my own referral sources and get people to pay me

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directly for something that I had been paid in indirectly through government contracts for so it required what I now

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affectionately referred to as a major boss-up because I needed to go from

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being a boss in an organization to being the boss of my own life and carving my

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own path of course it’s scary it’s absolutely terrifying but you’re absolutely right about reaching that

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point of being fed up I describe it as just being sick of my own I don’t know

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if it’s okay for me to swear I I have an explicit rating oh good I have an explicit rating on my podcast so I can

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express myself however let’s get me one if I don’t have one yet let’s be ready well at least at least for this episode

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but I I literally had to get sick of my own at least I literally had to get sick of hearing myself say to myself and

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to others why I can’t do something that I hadn’t even tried to do and there’s

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something about the gift of Aging where you realize you know you know

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if not now when because there will come a time for all of us where it’s going to

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be a lot harder and you will only have more time to accumulate more excuses so

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that was go time for me oh my gosh yeah it’s so interesting the parallels

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there’s obvious differences but parallels too and your experience in

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mine and you know my community who listens for the most part is like familiar with part

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of my own story was I was stuck at the same level for 10 years and like couldn’t break through a certain income

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threshold was kind of living like a good but not a great super fulfilled life and

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for me too it was the perspective shift mine was a little earlier in my journey

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I think I was like 45 when it happened but it was the perspective shift of like

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I’m not getting any younger no one is coming to save me I realized how much I

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was waiting for someone to come give me permission and validation yes did that

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like did you have that aha too where it’s like who am I waiting for I don’t even know I think I think that’s part of

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our cultural conditioning I mean it’s no mistake regardless of what generation you’re in that women have been

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culturally conditioned to be nice to accept what’s given to us to be

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satisfied with what we have and when we want more more money a bigger position

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more responsibility more freedom more creativity we are labeled all kinds of

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negative things including the most famous One the letter that starts with b and ends with so I think

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part of what we need to experience what I experienced and I’m certain what you experienced is that instead of looking

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to others to tell us who we are what we could be what the fullness of our

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potential looks like and that it’s perfectly okay to go after it and have

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it we have to make that an inside job because even if you’re lucky enough to have a mentor

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you’re you are still going to reject what he or she says until you

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internalize it so I think that’s something I really want more women to understand sooner than I did

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not only is nobody coming to save you and no one’s coming to empower you but

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you have to be willing to take full responsibility for doing that yourself

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because you will get pushback and you will get shade and you will get hate even from other women and you got to be

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ready for that oh my gosh yes I’m curious so I’ll share kind of like a

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little piece of my journey there that I want to ask you about this so in my journey when I made the

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decision to stop playing small and I had a good like it was a good life I was the

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family was you know taking we were I share numbers just because it’s like

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helpful for context sometimes that’s part of what I find helps my audience but like we were doing like low

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six-figure income like everything was fine I’m good I had like a four month old at the time and I just had this kind of

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download of it’s time to stop playing small because there was still these desires on my heart that I found myself

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saying no to I wanted to retire my husband from his he was working night shift at a hospital like he wanted to

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study to go to medical school and I wanted to be able to retire him so that we didn’t have to rely on his

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income for our life and uh wanted to play a bigger game with giving and

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charity and wanted a better lifestyle like I’m not ashamed like I wanted a better lifestyle you know six figures doesn’t get you what it used to get it

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that’s for sure and it was this like awareness of

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oh crap like I’ve I’ve been playing so small and again to what you just said

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I’ve been the only one limiting myself and I felt I kind of just prayed in that

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moment it was like guide me like whatever I need to do God Source Universe would guide me and I will do it

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very quickly got the nudge to make a it was massive for me at the time it was

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half of what I made the whole last year an investment in coaching with a woman who specialized in helping women become

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seven figure earnings like Mom specifically it felt petrifying but when I decided to do it I told no

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one like I told almost no one I told it because I knew enough that to your point if people won’t understand it was like

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if I bring this up with anyone they’ll say you’re crazy what are you doing you don’t have the money for that

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that was the thing that after I made that decision within six weeks my income

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10xed and it it has continued to grow and build from there but if I had

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stopped and asked for permission or asked other people’s thoughts like the only people I told were my husband and

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my best friend who’s on a similar growth path if I had asked anyone else they would have said you’re crazy what are you doing so when you made that decision

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to say yes to yourself and to step out on your own did you tell a lot of people or how did you kind of safeguard that

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dream and that vision from being watered down by other people’s doubts

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excellent question this is very likely because of my childhood trauma history

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but I’ve come to understand that I have an enormous capacity to tolerate pain

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and to that point I think I stayed in situations many kinds of situations over

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my lifetime much longer than I should have much longer than I needed to much

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longer than it was healthy because I had become so strong it was almost like a badge of honor that

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I could stick it out now I realize well that’s a great way to waste your whole

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life proving how strong you are instead of leveraging that strength to make your

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life better and the lives of people you care about so I I would say that understanding that

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it’s saying yes to yourself will seem like you’re saying no not only

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to other people but saying no to who you’ve been and I

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now believe because a lot of the work that I do is around uncovering your zone of genius with that comes the

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understanding of all the upper limit issues that you have that keep you in

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place whether it’s in a dead end marriage a dead-end job stuck at an income platform plateau and so forth you

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have to be able to understand when you think these thoughts it’s not because they’re true

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it’s because your ego is trying to keep you safe

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trying to keep you alive we should be teaching these Concepts in elementary school because by and large unless you

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are in personal development or coaching the fact that you are thinking all the

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time and that everything you think you believe even though ninety percent of it is absolute worthless crap is completely

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foreign to you my gosh this is so true this is so true

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our little guy is uh two and a half now we’ve got another one on the way in like two weeks and I am I’m like now that I

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know that but most of my life I didn’t know this stuff now that I know it I’m like brainwashing it consistently yeah

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affirmations like all this stuff because we are being brainwashed especially the first seven years of our life right and

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then we take it over for ourselves like you’re I always say that when you’re born your brain is an empty field of

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fertile soil so the seeds that get thrown at that brain in the first seven years are going to sink deep because

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there’s nothing else planted there and they’re going to have very deep roots which become the neural Pathways of your

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future thoughts so later on you can completely unbrainwash yourself but the

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thoughts that show up naturally in your brain that seems so true to you because you can never remember a time that you

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didn’t think them you will have to fight those like your life depends on it because the happiness and satisfaction

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of your life actually does depend on it I just wish we’d known sooner but we’re making up for Last Time by spreading the

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good news now it’s it’s one of those things where once you realize it you’re like oh my gosh when you know you know

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right you know you know yeah yeah exactly so one of the there’s two things

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you said there that I would love to go deeper in

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and stop me at any time because I get excited and I’m gonna like take I want to find out so much more from you so

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stop me at any time if you’re like no we need to read it and don’t forget don’t forget I’m supposed to be interviewing you too right

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and flowing so it’s all good but you said two things that stood

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out to me a lot one was the capacity for suffering and then two was that like 90

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of our thoughts were kind of BS right and that’s probably generous it’s probably more than I do it probably I

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know I was like how can I go deeper with three of that because it’s it’s so true once you learn that just because you

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think a thought doesn’t mean it’s true it’s a little trippy and it also takes a great deal of self-awareness to be able

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to stop the thoughts in the moment yes how do you

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the capacity for suffering resonated with me because just today I even noticed in some things in my life now

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where I was like I’m tolerating something’s taking longer than I desire them to take and I’m kind of okay with

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it and not that there’s not a timing to things and a rhythm and process of being the match for what you

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want but I was like I feel like my tolerance threshold for things taking a

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while in certain areas of my life is higher than I want it to be and my pain tolerance I know I’ve also

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similar to you like put up with a lot of stuff over the years that

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didn’t feel good was painful Etc and I’m happy to share what I tell my

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clients to do but like what is your process for noticing and catching the thoughts and for redirecting and for

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shortening that suffering and pain tolerance any any tips for that yeah a couple

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things to discuss that I think are important I had a pretty serious car accident

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years ago when I was still in my medical sales position and wasn’t able to work

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for a year that began a journey of chronic pain that I have been living with for now

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more than half my life after they had tried all the pills all the procedures 12 hours of traction a day

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cauterizing my nerve endings you know you name it everything short of neurosurgery because they said my spine

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was too delicate and they wouldn’t touch me with a 10-foot scalpel times three three people said that so I’m like okay

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no surgery I learned that meditation

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could be helpful for someone with chronic pain that led me on a path to

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actually embracing a Buddhist philosophy in my life so I have been learning to

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observe and manage my mind for almost 20 years and I will tell you not only has

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it helped with the chronic pain in fact most people who know me don’t even know I live with chronic pain because first

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of all it’s not very interesting to talk about unless you want to play the victim card which I most certainly do not but

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also because I manage really well with it the other thing that’s helped me with enormously is ADHD

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because I am able to observe my thoughts as they’re happening and that has helped

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a lot with impulsiveness and rejection sensitivity and some of the other things I mean I don’t have to tell you in sales

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dealing with rejection dealing with the anticipation of possible rejection is

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key so I’ve done a lot of work around rejection sensitivity and also just

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thinking of each of my thoughts is like a thought bubble if I have rapid thoughts if I’m really

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excited I’m having an ADHD moment I think of it as like opening a can of soda and all of a sudden you know the

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bubbles are all right there sometimes it’s just one thought Bubble at a time or like a balloon but I’ve

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I have learned to hit the pause button most of the time because if I don’t I’m

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going to make an impulsive decision an impulsive judgment an impulsive reaction

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that later on I’ll wish I had handled differently so part of this is just

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simply maturity and and being on the planet more years but also accumulating

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experience with what it feels like to almost want to blurt something out and

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then taking a breath instead if I wanted to interrupt you because you

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had something really juicy I wanted to grab a hold of and swing I don’t want to dominate the conversation so I just have

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my little notepad over here I’m going to write it down it’s not like one thing it’s a lot of little things done

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consistently over time so that I don’t have to do things impulsively because

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I’m afraid of missing the opportunity more opportunities will come my way

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that’s one of my affirmations so I don’t have to act on everyone which means I

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can live with a lot less anxiety and fomo wow that’s so powerful that is so

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powerful it all adds up too like all of these lessons you know how it is they just kind of layer on themselves and

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then you realize I’m making better decisions I’m more satisfied with the decisions I’m making and I can see

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myself thinking small as it’s happening wow and stop it in the tracks now that

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was not always so most of the time it the awareness comes after the fact but if you don’t get too

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discouraged and you don’t give up you don’t decide oh this doesn’t work if you

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keep at it you can absolutely get ahead of even some of your thoughts and

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anticipate okay I’m leveling up in this scenario I know exactly what thoughts to

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anticipate and watch for so when they happen I’ll be like I am so ready for

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you you’re not getting in here and messing with my mind I saw you coming and you are not welcome at this party

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and I use a lot of metaphors and analogies and humor because otherwise it

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can feel it can be very fatiguing to be managing your own mind let’s face it we’re always

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thinking and when you don’t like the thoughts that are on speed dial it’s some work to change them but so so worth

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it it really is it’s uh it’s mental gymnastics yes you will feel fatigued at

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the end of the day yes actively do you do you write them down like that’s what

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I do I actually have a note on my computer and my phone that’s like these are the old personality thoughts to know just so you know

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when they pop up what they are do you write them down or how do you track them and kind of have that foresight of oh

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yeah this is going to come up so that you’re ahead of the game well I use the app think up

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um okay okay it’s an affirmations app it’s one that I recommend a lot people do not need to get the paid version you

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can get the free version it allows you a small handful of affirmations but what’s cool about it at least you’re gonna love

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this you record them in your own voice and the reason why that’s powerful is

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because that’s the voice you’re talking to yourself with yeah so you’re

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literally able to override those automatic negative thoughts by choosing

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new thoughts so how I use it is both to if I don’t like the thoughts that I’m

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thinking naturally I already know what they’re going to be I do something that’s like the opposite

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I record those in the app and then I just allow it to play in the background

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kind of subliminally while I’m getting ready in the morning maybe while I’m working out while I’m doing my nighttime

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routine walking the dogs because the programming gets in there even if I’m

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not consciously listening to it and I also have a hit list what I usually call

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a list of like frequent flyers the thoughts that I have literally been thinking all of my life that aren’t true

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were never true and yet still somehow they keep showing up but the difference

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is I’m on to them and they used to control me so good I love the frequent flyers

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because it makes it a little comical almost which I think sometimes we have to do with this stuff I have to use a

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lot of humor in my life because things changing your life

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changing your mind changing your business unblocking and unlocking your own

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potential make no mistake it’s work so I

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use humor to lighten it up and to offset some of the heaviness of it because even

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helping people do that work can feel heavy to me so there’s my husband can’t

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understand with the nature of the work that I do why he hears so much laughter coming out of my home office but to me

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that’s a superpower when you can confront painful realities in your life or the life of someone you’re working

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with with affection and respect and lack of

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judgment and humor I think it’s a powerful combination so powerful it’s so

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powerful and let me pause too because I feel like I have 20 more questions for you but I also I realize that with how

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you’ve trained and conditioned your thoughts and holding back from the impulses you may have questions that you

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want to ask or so let me pause and I’ll just redirect over to you for if there’s anything we’ve talked about so far that

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you want to go deeper in or anything you want to ask me otherwise I can keep going forever with questions for you but

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but I’ll pause and thank you Yes actually I know that there there’s a lot

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of noise in the coaching industry about about six figure this six figure that

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six figure the other thing and you already acknowledge that actually when

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you have a family in most parts of the country U.S Canada six figures isn’t exactly putting you on

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easy street right you also said that you were stuck at an income Plateau for 10

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years and that just became your Norm it sets your expectations it set what was

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possible for you it set your your lifestyle and your husband’s career

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and then something changed so You Now teach other people how to do that what do you think were the most

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surprising and unexpected things that you learned in that coaching program

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that started to open your mind to the possibilities for you absolutely that’s such a great question and for me the the

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transformation let’s say people will hear sometimes like oh my

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gosh you 10 extra income in six weeks yes and I had been stuck for 10 years trying to figure out how to do it and

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not able to do it so or didn’t take the right steps to do it and the steps were mental so I always just want to preface

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that with like any time you hear overnight success or overnight this or that remember that there’s much more to

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the story than there was but to your point Diann like my what I know now

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because part of the process for me was I’ve been looking outside for the

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solution I’ve been hiring mentors coaches trying every sales script doing all the

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Tactical things all of the matter on matter approach and no matter what I did I always felt

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like I couldn’t break past that income threshold I always felt anxiety about

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money I always was afraid that it was going to go I was always afraid when it came time to

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pay my bills I had just a lot of low-grade anxiety going on with a lot of different areas financially

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and the impetus for making that decision to change and I think when we’re really

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ready to change it usually requires some type of a burn the ships type of

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moment where it’s like you’re giving your subconscious such a strong command that no this is happening and it usually

30:32

has to be backed up with some sort of big quote-unquote risky action or thing where

30:38

you’re burning It To The Ground like this is happening or or I’m gonna figure something else out right like I’m going

30:45

all in on this uh but not having that plan B and so a mentor I was working with like

30:52

right before then right at the time had had me do this exercise that I think was actually a Kathy Heller original

30:59

and it was called your five dream lives and it was for whatever reason it just struck me because she had me look

31:05

at if you could have any five dream lives what would they be and you think back to

31:13

what did I want to do in childhood what have I been saying you know at some

31:19

point I’ll do but not yet and for whatever reason it wasn’t like

31:24

the moon was lined up in any direction or everything was perfect timing in my

31:30

life it just struck me differently as I looked at these dream lives and there

31:35

was kind of an element of sadness as I looked at them that was like oh my gosh you know I had wanted to

31:42

sing that was always a vision of mine but I stopped singing publicly after I was sexually assaulted in college

31:49

I wanted to be a philanthropist but I always had the quote-unquote excuse of well I don’t have enough money

31:57

I wanted to play on a much bigger level in my life than I was playing and I started looking at people who had

32:03

actually executed on things similar to the dream lives that showed up for me and I realized

32:11

number one many of them were younger than me or they had more challenging situations growing up

32:17

and it was kind of just this revelation of maybe it was being a new mom too I think that helped shift my perspective a

32:23

bit but this revelation of like I’m the only one who can do this for myself

32:29

and so when I made that commitment and that decision to just do whatever it took to get out of my own way and to

32:35

finally confront the limiting beliefs about money and potential and who I was

32:40

what I knew in that moment was you know that of course asking the universe

32:46

answers it’s like the next day the coaching opportunity with this Mentor showed up when I said yes to it

32:53

and I didn’t tell her this but it was I knew that just literally making that

32:59

investment in myself that I didn’t even I had to put the deposit on a credit card I didn’t know how I was going to

33:04

pay for the rest I was petrified again I was the breadwinner for the family I thought am I putting us in financial ruin by doing this but the pull was so

33:12

strong it was almost as if the person I had to become to even pay

33:18

for that and to say I am worthy of investing at this level because I had never

33:23

done something based on self-worth where I’d held back from investing in myself or held back from really what I really

33:29

wanted because I realized I didn’t feel worthy of it and in that moment that declaration it was like it almost didn’t

33:35

matter what she taught me or what we did together the person I had to become to

33:40

just confront the money demons was going to be a radically different woman than who I had started off as so I would say

33:48

through a combination an incredible Mentor through a combination of her mentoring we did a lot of inner child

33:53

work which at first I was like what does inner child have to do with making more money it has a lot to do

34:01

your child I dug deep into a lot of Joe dispenza’s work at that

34:07

time as well and I love how you said meditation has made such a big impact for you because it did for me too

34:14

a lot of work on the energy of money and so it was all the inner work it was

34:20

that was what really catapulted my journey and realizing it was never about the exterior it was about my self-image

34:27

and how I I’d wanted to be a million dollar business owner I had wanted to like have the life and the impact

34:34

that came along with that but my identity didn’t match that and so it was the process of reconditioning my

34:40

identity to start to see myself as someone who not only could do it but was worthy of it and I think that’s a big thing

34:46

I’ve just found your level of income will never exceed your level of self-worth so I will I’ll pause on that but those

34:53

it was really the inner work piece no it totally makes sense and I I think one of the things that I’ve been able to lean

34:59

on a lot with my background as a psychotherapist when people talk about transformation

35:07

I don’t think enough of them talk about identity crisis because the reality is

35:13

as you level up in whatever way you choose to do so

35:18

leveling up in your income leveling up in your impact leveling up in the size of your team

35:24

you know what whatever your goal is you literally are going to have an

35:30

identity crisis which is part of addressing those upper limit issues because the person who

35:37

thinks the thoughts that become those upper limits is the person that you are

35:43

and have been up to this point so the notion that you could claim a new

35:49

identity for yourself and not experience something

35:54

potentially terrifying in the process I think really isn’t helping people

36:00

understand why it’s so important to get the right kind of support

36:05

I know there are people who are able to do this on their own some of them become extremely popular celebrities

36:13

but to actually stop being the person that you’ve been

36:19

and the person that you’ve always thought of yourself as and allowing yourself to evolve into a

36:25

new identity if you think about that it would be like what if you had like a traumatic brain

36:31

injury and you woke up in the hospital and the doctor said could you tell us

36:37

your name uh you know you literally won’t know who

36:45

you are until you have some practice at that new level so I think it’s just a fascinating

36:52

thing to consider and that’s why I’m sure you would agree why meditation has been so helpful because

36:58

I mean at least what I’ve understood and what I’ve learned in following the Buddhist path for almost 20 years is

37:05

that identity is a construct anyway and so you practice non-attachment to

37:13

all things including that identity which I think helps a lot in the evolution of

37:19

it but something I really want to ask you about and I see it holds a lot of

37:25

women back who maybe have allowed themselves to think I want that I want that Million Dollar

37:32

business I want that Global impact I want to retire my husband I want to send

37:38

my kids to private school I want to be generous in my giving whatever the driver is I think a lot of women hold

37:45

themselves back because of fear of envy and what I call ambition shaming I would

37:52

love to hear your thoughts about that oh yeah juicy right it is now I want to

37:58

hear your take on it too because no no no you go you go you go

38:03

I do want to I want to hear your thoughts on that yeah you know it’s it’s so funny

38:09

I was speaking with some members of my Mastermind the other day and we just got back from this retreat in Sedona and

38:15

they were sharing something that I could relate to as well where people were asking them like how

38:22

was it and it was a couple women who said this they’re like I wanted to say like it was amazing and it was

38:28

transformational and I’m thinking like I’m thinking here about myself and they said but I found myself holding

38:35

back from saying how it really was and be like oh it was it was really good it

38:41

was nice yeah because yeah yeah because they didn’t want to whether it’s

38:46

outshine whether it’s make someone else uncomfortable or seen full of themselves

38:51

and I’ve absolutely had that come up in my life as well you know I

38:58

the fear of Envy peace and the ambition shaming I think at this

39:04

point I’ve curated my circle enough to where

39:09

it’s not something that comes up a lot in my own life but I do I have seen

39:15

where I will absolutely hold back from sharing whether it’s a big win or whether it’s a certain yeah a win a

39:22

success because there’s this like oh who is she gonna think she is type of vibe

39:29

with it so I don’t know if I have the perfect answer for that I know in my own life it’s been

39:35

find the people like I know my husband my mentor like my dear girlfriends like I’ll share with

39:41

I think knowing that whatever judgment someone puts on you is really a judgment

39:47

they have about themselves and we can know that consciously it doesn’t mean that we don’t still fear putting it out

39:54

there our successes are going for what we really want but yeah to me it’s I’ve always I’ve

40:01

learned to be very careful about who I share with and what I share but I’m curious to know your thoughts now

40:06

because I feel like you probably talk about this more than I do and I’m very intrigued well I think because a lot of people I

40:13

work with deal with rejection sensitivity in order to be able to stand out

40:21

I think like show up stand up speak out you gotta be able to take up some space

40:28

own who you are accept who you’re not and be Unapologetic about all of it and

40:34

of course that takes a lot of inner work but if part of what you’re showing up for

40:39

is the fact that I am incredibly grateful for the life that I have I am

40:46

incredibly grateful for all of the lessons that I’ve learned even the really painful ones because they

40:52

contributed to me becoming the person I am I wouldn’t be this person had it not

40:58

been for all of that but I am keenly aware that as an intelligent educated

41:06

successful woman who happens to be also tall and well spoken

41:11

I have been told all of my life, Elyse all of my life starting from maybe early

41:17

High School that I’m intimidating 

41:22

caused me along with other feedback that I internalized to want to shrink myself

41:29

to want to hold back to take up less space I mean everything from the I’m not

41:34

going to wear heels anymore two I’m not going to wear bright colors too I’m not going to raise my hand I’m

41:42

going to give other people a chance well I I eventually couldn’t hold back I eventually felt like I can’t sit here

41:49

and listen to all these people saying things that aren’t adding to the conversation

41:54

or they don’t really know what they’re talking about I I have to break out of this box

42:00

and I think something that’s helped me a lot personally is recognizing if you’re

42:06

keeping yourself small if you’re holding yourself back if you’re settling for less if you’re

42:12

tolerating too much if you are diminishing yourself in any way

42:17

because you fear other people’s judgment I got news for you sister

42:23

they’re already judging you they’re judging you anyway it may not be for

42:29

what you’re trying to avoid but they’re already judging you because the people that are preoccupied with

42:36

judging you are dissatisfied with themselves it’s a

42:41

great distraction so you can never satisfy them enough to make judgment off

42:48

the table so you might as well be you and equip yourself with the skills to

42:55

care a whole lot less about them because they were never going to be your people

43:00

anyway and that takes some learning especially because sadly sadly some of those people

43:07

may be friends and family members I think one

43:12

of the biggest level UPS in my life to be honest with

43:18

you is letting go of people I’ve outgrown hmm

43:24

yes it is hard because you realize that your

43:30

circle becomes much much smaller much deeper much richer

43:38

and I’m okay with that because what I was willing to sacrifice

43:43

to have more people who weren’t really there for me who I didn’t feel safe

43:51

being all of me with I had a very close friend for like 25 years

43:56

and I kept feeling this growing discomfort because I noticed when I was

44:02

struggling when I was hurting when I had a failure she was right there but when things were

44:10

going better and better and better I got nothing but shade or even she

44:16

would turn on herself and criticize herself by comparing unfavorably to me and I finally said

44:24

this is a conversation I should have initiated a long time ago we can’t be friends anymore and I don’t want you to

44:29

guess why I’m going to tell you exactly why that was really really hard because I’m not unkind right but I didn’t want

44:37

to just ghost or fade or you know dial down on you know the dimmer switch and

44:44

just not be as available I I wanted to say your Envy has killed our friendship so this is

44:52

where it stops for me that isn’t something everybody needs to do but

44:57

you’d be the first one to agree that having a curated circle is immensely

45:04

important to maintaining your new identity as an expanded evolved version

45:09

of yourself wouldn’t you say so true and I think one thing two things I would actually

45:16

take from what you just said and kind of how I think about it is one is a lot of times we say Well

45:22

they’re gonna judge well who are they even because oftentimes sometimes it is

45:28

someone that we know and they’re in the Inner Circle whether it’s family or friends and you can pinpoint them

45:33

but oftentimes it’ll also be like who random people on social media people you

45:38

don’t even know I mean we kind of group people together in our minds so just getting really clear on who are these

45:45

people that I think are judging me and do they matter or not but this the second piece that I would add in there

45:52

too and it’s really just something I thought about while you were talking is perhaps a good litmus test for a

45:59

relationship of any sort is am I expanding like is this a container that

46:04

I feel that I can keep expanding into or am I feeling like I have to shrink and looking at that as a litmus test for the

46:11

quality of any sort of relationship in your life and if it’s one you can expand into beautiful and if it’s one where you

46:18

feel like you have to shrink and play small and downplay and minimize it’s time for some adjustments and that

46:24

that’s excellent criteria yeah yeah well and kudos to you for having that

46:30

conversation because most people probably that I’m sure that was uncomfortable for you to do but the

46:36

directness I think Clarity is kind and the directness there is is powerful too so

46:43

we could keep talking forever but we’re not going to because we promised each other we would keep this because it

46:49

wasn’t one of the goals here is that we were going to be efficient and do more with less I think we did it though I

46:56

think this was something conversation absolutely yeah no this is beautiful why

47:02

don’t why don’t we do this do we want to share where people can connect with us to to learn more and to engage further

47:08

I’ll have you go first Diann okay if you like

47:14

the sound of my voice and what I have to say with it and you are not already listening to The Driven woman

47:19

entrepreneur podcast this is your personal invitation to do so you can find my website at diannwingertcoaching

47:27

and I’m on most of the socials but actively growing my connections on

47:32

LinkedIn amazing amazing which is maybe where I reached I’m like did I reach out to you

47:37

on LinkedIn or Instagram because those are kind of the places I hang out I think it was insta Instagram okay cool

47:42

cool beautiful and I would say the same thing so my podcast is She Sells Radio

47:49

and people usually come in looking for sales tips and advice and then they find

47:54

out it’s a lot of deeper work and conversations like this which was so much fun today, elysearcher.com is my

48:02

website and I am primarily on LinkedIn and Instagram but I’m everywhere at Elyse Archer so

48:09

this was so fun thank you we’re always selling aren’t we I think everything is sales I really do

48:17

and I’m always so bummed when I hear how many women say they hate it like have you ever convinced a kid to eat broccoli

48:23

but bam you’re in sales the hardest sales job of all time. I’m

48:29

learning no lie no lie well thank you for suggesting this for

48:37

making it easy and fun and I will absolutely do it again same here. Thank you so much.