Lead, Don’t Manage with Mark Williams

0:02

Welcome to She Sells Radio now whether you are a sales professional a solopreneur

0:08

or maybe you’re leading an established team one of the areas that we all consistently need to grow in is in

0:14

leadership and here’s the thing we are all leading first ourselves then others

0:20

right whether that’s in the sales process or we’re leading others to come join us in our companies and I will say

0:27

candidly and transparently this is an area that I am always wanting to grow in myself and so I am super excited to

0:35

bring you someone who I think is a true expert on this topic today so that you can learn along with me so I’ll tell you

0:41

a little bit about him and his background my guest today is Mark Williams he’s the president and CEO of

0:46

Brokers International if you are not in the financial services industry it’s one of the industry’s largest field

0:53

marketing organizations so they provide annuity and Life Insurance Solutions uh to Independent Insurance and financial

0:59

professional around the nation he has a proven track record of driving transformation having helped transform

1:06

companies such as alance the Hartford and game plan from the inside out and

1:11

currently Mark is focused on the future of the insurance industry from the disruptions of insured Tech and Rober

1:17

advisers to the changing demographics and needs of customers and he’s an avid Mentor helping Financial professionals

1:23

navigate the industry he’s also the author of a book that I’ve been reading which I’m super excited to ask more

1:28

about lead don’t manage so we’re going to dive more into that today Mark welcome to shells radio it’s so good to

1:34

spend time with you today yeah thanks so much for having me I really appreciate it I was totally looking forward to this absolutely and we were just connecting

1:41

on the Marietta connection before we went live so we were almost neighbors I

1:46

think I left right before you moved in it’s always crazy such a uh such a small

1:52

world and special place in my heart for that City for sure that’s where our oldest son was born so um here’s one

1:58

thing I’ll say and I was sharing with you too in the pre-chat our audience is primarily female sales professionals and

2:05

entrepreneurs and many of them are in financial services U but we also have men who listen and a really diverse

2:11

audience so one thing I want to say before we kick off that this conversation is going to apply to

2:16

everyone whether or not you’re one of our listeners who is in finance and like

2:22

I said I’ve been reading Mark’s book lead don’t manage and the principles in here apply to everyone so I want for me

2:29

to the listeners I want to invite you to tune in to take notes because you’re going to learn from someone who has led

2:34

for quite some time very successfully in a very competitive industry and you can

2:39

apply these principles whether you are like I said at the beginning a solopreneur whether you’re looking to

2:44

scale whether you’re in financial services it doesn’t matter all the principles are going to be Universal so

2:50

um before we get into anything leadership related I want to ask you about I’m calling them the two B’s

2:57

balance and branding so for first question for you uh you host your own

3:02

show which I’ve been having fun diving into called balance not burnout and I

3:08

was very pleased uh to see that that is

3:13

a focus of yours in your work because I think we all regardless of whether someone’s in finance or not so much of

3:19

the business World celebrates hustle burnout you’ve got to work 247 to be

3:25

successful right this is what’s taught um and I’ve I’ve had my own low points of My Life coming out of that mindset

3:32

and a lot of what we teach now is around it’s aligned with what you teach on the podcast but on your website um it says

3:39

Mark challenges the idea that success as a professional today requires juggling

3:44

an Ever growing list of priorities your attention is one of your most precious

3:50

resources and then you say it’s time to ditch hustle culture and replace it with a cultivated sense of

3:56

intentionality you talk about trying The rebellious Act of balance I love this so I’d love to hear a little bit more about

4:03

your inspiration for the show and was there a time in your career in your life when you found yourself in Burnout where

4:10

you said something’s got to change you bet and thanks for asking so uh for your

4:15

listeners I’m 55 years old and I’ve been in the financial services business for 30 years and in my earlier years it was

4:23

all about hustle work as hard as you can um nights weekends I travel traveled uh

4:30

for over 20 years 48 weeks out of the Year almost Monday through Friday um

4:38

literally I thought that was the keys to the kingdom right that would get me to where I want to go now In fairness some

4:43

of that hard work did lead to some of the some of the uh positions that I got and ultimately the opportunity to run a

4:50

few companies so I I don’t want to Discount the importance of that but today with the increase in technology

4:58

and just the way people can reach us I’m answering texts at night I’m getting a

5:05

LinkedIn me I I get 30 or 40 LinkedIn messages a day some people are on Facebook and they’re on Instagram and an

5:12

email and phone calls it does get to be overwhelming and overwhelming for my

5:17

employees and I’m watching it happen now at 55 I can honestly say it’s

5:24

time to set some boundaries and had I set boundaries earlier on in my career I think I would have been even more

5:30

productive and I’m seeing that from our own employees so I’m challenging the hey let’s work 20 hours a day and give it

5:37

all I’ve got I want you to give it all you got I just don’t think you I think you can do it for eight or nine hours a

5:43

day if you work smart um if you’re organized if you prioritize if you do

5:49

things that matter then I think you can achieve the same amount of success and

5:54

still have time for yourself for your kids for your family for your significant other for a hobby

6:00

um do something that just makes you happy maybe it’s yoga or working out or reading a good book or sleeping late um

6:07

I I have seen not only in myself but in my employees and my peers when you take a little more time to yourself and you

6:14

recharge you do give it more and so I’m challenging that and hopefully that will resonate with some folks oh I’m I’m sure

6:21

it resonates with everyone you know a lot of the listeners here are working others and even today as we do this

6:28

interview now this actually hasn’t happened it’s since I’ve been a mom but my um three and a half-year-old was

6:34

really sick this morning and I decided to keep him home so like I’ve got him home with me today he’s watching a show

6:40

I was like Mommy’s got stuff you can’t come in right now um but a lot of our listeners they’re doing that dance every

6:48

single day and they’re working from home they’re taking care of the kids so it’s even beyond the 8 to nine hours right

6:55

which most people deem a normal workday like they’re dealing with how do I take care of the kids make sure that they’re

7:01

set up and simultaneously grow and run a successful business so it’s it’s real

7:08

right but I think one of the things you shared was you think you so you 55 have

7:13

this um maybe not realization but this is the the your viewpoint on it now

7:19

which I appreciate I agree you said you thought you might be even more successful earlier on with these with

7:26

this intentionality in place um why do you think that is yeah I um there used

7:32

to be this adage when I was younger um I’ll outwork everyone I want someone I want someone

7:39

to work hard I want them but more importantly I want them to work smart and with the amount of information we

7:45

have today on our customers on our competitors on our peers I want I I I’ll

7:51

back up a few years ago I did a lesson for every 15 minutes of the day I jotted

7:57

down what I was doing for a whole day literally every 15 minutes I wrote what I was doing you would be amazed at the

8:04

amount of time we consider ourselves busy but are not doing really productive

8:10

work yes so I would go out to see every customer possible when I was younger I’m

8:16

not sure I needed to see every customer in fact I I will guarantee you that there were plenty of customers I called

8:21

on that I didn’t need to visit face to face or as frequently or they didn’t

8:27

contribute as much to the bottom line to Warrant a vis it so had I had I had the information I

8:34

have today as to which customers are providing the most value where are the customers that need me to be there

8:40

present versus a phone call can I work by Zoom can I prioritize my day where I

8:45

make my phone calls in the morning to the most important calls and in the afternoon I’m working on uh maybe it’s

8:52

paperwork or contracts or whatever I’m doing can we prioritize our time in a

8:57

better fashion and I would argue yes today um and again few rules of

9:03

management if you have someone to delegate information or delegate tasks learn to delegate one of the biggest uh

9:10

things I see with entrepreneurs um and we have lots of them in the insurance business in fact most Financial

9:15

professionals are entrepreneurs um they’re hesitant to hire someone and then when they do

9:21

they’re not really sure what to give them how how to delegate what to delegate um I would challenge most

9:27

entrepreneurs that the best thing you can can do is get to be in the position to hire someone to help you let them

9:33

handle the work you shouldn’t be doing um so that’s one aspect right prioritizing what you’re doing when

9:39

you’re doing it and is the work you’re doing actively being effective or are

9:45

you just busy yeah I have lots of employees that work really hard I would argue I’m not sure all of them are

9:52

producing the way they should so that’s just a small Challenge and I think I’ve challenged myself to work that way and

9:59

and again we’re we’re surrounded with so much information and we have so much more information on our customer base today on our salespeople I think there

10:07

is a way to work smarter get the same if not better

10:12

results and have more free time than we thought I agree now one follow-up

10:17

question to that so as you’re talking I’m thinking about some of the clients in our community and we have women in

10:24

financial services and I’m thinking about conversations I’ve had specifically with a few of them

10:29

where they are trying to figure out how do I manage up with the expectations given so they have management leadership

10:37

telling them cold call you know smile and dial go through these hundreds and just keep turning the phones which is

10:44

how it’s been taught and how it’s been done to them they’re like I know that if

10:49

I could be more intentional that I I would approach this a different way I want to be more

10:54

intentional with my work I want to focus like they I have one woman for example who does a great job with events and

11:00

putting on events and bringing in clients that way yet her leadership is still looking at have you made all your

11:06

calls for the day and there’s some resistance there I’m curious from where you’re standing what is your perspective

11:13

if you feel like your leadership is telling you to do stuff that you know deep down is like check the box rather than intentional action you bet um I

11:21

have run sales organizations my entire career results matter yeah at the end of

11:27

the day results are what your upline wants I would offer the challenge to

11:34

challenge your boss let me have one quarter one quarter of this year to do

11:40

it my way and let me see if I can match the results from doing it the way versus

11:47

the way you want me to do it at the end of the day as a salesperson you have to see people you have to present what

11:55

you’re offering you have to attempt to make the sale you have to close yeah and if you’re if you’re really good

12:02

about studying who you’re calling on and when you’re calling on them and how effective are you calling on them the

12:07

second thing you’re going to study is how effective am I at closing at my presentation and closing and out of how

12:14

many people do I speak to present to and close to how many sales am I making at

12:20

the end of the day if you can Prospect in a different way and you and you want to challenge the cold calling which I

12:26

made thousands of cold calls in my career if could if you can see the same number of people cold calling versus

12:33

networking versus doing uh events at at a World Congress Center um if you can

12:38

see the same number of people present the same number of people and sell the same number of people your way I think

12:45

your boss will get out of your way and it’s a challenge I literally would walk in and say I’d like to challenge this

12:51

and maybe it’s not a quarter give me six weeks give me four weeks give me eight weeks depending on you know your your sales cycle and what you

12:57

sell at the end of the day Day More sales makes your boss look good they’re

13:03

not going to matter how you got there as long as you’re producing so I would challenge I I would

13:10

challenge that and I think that a really good boss is going to give you that

13:15

opportunity because I want you to succeed and if you think you can succeed in a different way listen there’s

13:21

there’s a bunch of ways to drive to my home if you have a better way than the way I gave you knock yourself out I just want you at my home at a certain time

13:27

right that right if you can get there a different way or it’s a scenic route or you’ll meet six more people that way than my way congratulations I think

13:35

results matter and results speak for themselves no matter how you get it done so that would be my challenge I love

13:41

that I think that’s great feedback and then of course that assumes that you have a boss who’s open-minded and who is

13:47

in that leadership mindset too which we’ll we’ll talk a little bit more about the show as we go but I appreciate from

13:52

your perspective you saying I would do this and I think that’s really helpful because I know I’ve coached a number of

13:58

women our community on how do I tackle this when I feel like I’m just being giving minutia to check the box which no

14:04

one wants to be doing so even in this world where we’re juggling you talked about family and people working with

14:10

their family um I have been on interviews with my 10 and 12 and

14:16

14-year-old son where I said to my Prospect you know today’s dad’s day and

14:21

I brought my son along and you don’t mind he’s just going to sit with me for a little while as I give this

14:26

presentation no one ever said no and in fact I would tell you it was more endearing having my son with me than not

14:35

right so just small example of where you can you can uh press I think people are

14:42

different today and they’re more open-minded today and they’re willing to do different things um and and they’re a

14:49

little more open-minded with someone juggling their time yeah um hey let’s meet by Zoom today might be a little bit

14:55

easier for me to review what what we sold or or or my my product by Zoom might be a little more efficient for me

15:01

and it’s going to give you a little more efficiency I think people are more open to those types of things so again I would challenge if you have a boss

15:07

that’s challenging you challenge back in a respectful way and say let me see if I can produce results my way and I I I I

15:14

think I think you might be surprised with most bosses yeah so good speaking of family I love that you brought up

15:20

family so the other B that I wanted to ask you about was branding yep so I

15:25

think you’ve done a really good job and I don’t say that lightly because I coach

15:31

a lot of people on branding and building personal Brands that’s a huge part of my background I think you’ve done a really good job of building a

15:38

human uh connected personal brand on LinkedIn and I know this is an area

15:43

where whether you’re in financial services or not a lot of times people will say how much do I share of my

15:49

personal life especially on LinkedIn how much do I share of my family of the human touch and they feel like they have

15:55

to be robotic and then if we drill it down even more specific to advisers or

16:00

marketers it’s because we coach and work with a lot of them um there can be a lot

16:06

of confusion discomfort what do I share I’ve got to work with compliance etc etc

16:11

and so they don’t feel comfortable building their brand so I would number one say go check out Mark and will’ll Link all his social in the show notes

16:17

here so you can see how he’s doing it but what is your approach to this because I I think every time I see a

16:22

post from you it’s like it’s compelling it feels personal there’s family a lot of times so speak to that a little more

16:28

yeah thank you very much much so first off I will say whenever I speak in front of a group of people I ask the same

16:33

question how many of you have a brand and most people don’t you know when you think of a brand you think of a logo and

16:39

most people are surprised that they have their own brand and this is the way I would describe that your brand is

16:45

whatever people say about you when you’re not in the room right so and we all have a brand

16:50

and and the easiest story I tell is that when when when when you were trick-or-treating as a kid everyone knew

16:56

the house that gave out good candy also knew the house gave raisins or or dimes or whatever right that was their brand

17:03

so you have a brand regardless of whether you think you do or not and it’s really what people say about you so the

17:10

first thing is to understand what your current brand is how do people view you do they respect you are you a subject

17:16

matter expert at work if you’re a salesperson um what do they like about you you’re super knowledgeable uh maybe

17:23

you’re funny um you always have an answer um understand your brand that’s number one

17:29

um I believe people buy a salesperson first they don’t buy your product right

17:36

if I TR sales are built on trust I might be able to sell you one time but if I’m going to sell you two or three times in

17:42

the future you have to like me you’re buying me um and if you like me you’re

17:48

more inclined to listen to me to engage with me especially if you know me a

17:54

little bit more than just hey I represent this company so uh there’s enough people in the world that whatever

18:00

likes you have you’ll find people that have your likes right it’s going look at Facebook look at Facebook groups for

18:06

example there’s a group for everything so I was told early on on LinkedIn 100%

18:13

be who you are be your brand um there’s times that uh look at my beard today a

18:18

little unkempt right so um that’s the way I am sometimes I’m in a t-shirt today it’s it it it’s warm in my house

18:23

I’ve got someone working working downstairs and so um I came in a t-shirt that is who I am

18:29

um I’m not a suit Tha person every day although the CEO might warrant that on occasion um I speak uh you know I

18:37

Stumble sometimes every so often I might cuss once or twice that’s who I am and

18:42

I’m very comfortable with who I am and I would offer to most people most people

18:48

especially on LinkedIn want to see who you are what are the things that you do what do you like um I’ve taken I I’ve

18:55

had photos of me working out looking horrible totally covered in sweat that’s part of my life that’s what I do um I

19:02

love to work on cars I posted pictures of me with my cars um that’s who I am that’s that’s that that’s my brand I

19:09

don’t shy away from it in fact I invite it and the comments that I get again just based on my comments are people

19:15

appreciate that people want to know who you are because when I meet you for the first time you now have a glimpse of to

19:22

who I am I’m not a jackeline Hyde this is who I am yeah and I think that most

19:28

people want to see that and they want to do business with that and that’s kind of how I was coached and so that would be my challenge for most people do you have

19:35

to go into um things I wouldn’t share you know there’s lots of things I wouldn’t share I’m kind of a private

19:40

person I might not share really personal information but I might not share that with a prospect either right um I’m not

19:46

going to share personal things that I would only share with my best friend but if I got a promotion or I got a new car

19:53

or went on vacation I might tell people I went on vacation had a great time and this is what I learned on vacation that

19:59

I think resonates with lots of people yeah I um no I think that’s super helpful some of my listeners who’ have

20:05

listened for a long time know this story but I share this with clients when they’re feeling nervous or uncomfortable

20:11

about putting themselves out there on social so my top performing video of all time is one where I actually had a black

20:16

eye which possibly the the shock and off Factor but normally I’m you know I’m a

20:22

makeup girl I like getting that up I I like all of that and that’s just who I am and there was a time a couple of

20:28

years ago when we were in Marietta um I had had skin cancer surgery and I had a

20:33

black eye from following the surgery and I thought I was doing a lot of coaching for people around video confidence at

20:39

the time and I thought I have to do a video looking not perfect not done up

20:44

just to show that it’s okay to be who you really are and that I tell you what

20:49

that video yep it went so above and beyond the others because it was it was just real and raw and to your point

20:56

there’s boundaries right but yeah and I’m glad you mention that the number one post I ever had on LinkedIn was a

21:01

picture of me handwriting cards so every year I handw write cards to our

21:07

employees we have about 120 employees so that takes me you know a good few days it’s a lot of cards it’s a lot of handwriting um and the the the the it

21:15

was just a picture of me handwriting cards and I said you know do something a little bit different around the year blah blah blah blah blah um but it was

21:22

me in my office handwriting and I think it was hey

21:27

that’s that’s one of the T that I do it’s not really noteworthy but it’s real that’s what I do and it got a lot people

21:35

not only just the fact that I wrote the cards but the fact that that’s who I am that’s what I do um it’s one of the

21:41

things that I do um and I think people are interested in that yes so yeah I I think I hate to use

21:49

the word authentic or you know that that seems to be the buzz word lately but there is some truth to that be who you

21:54

are let people see who you are so when I meet you hey I know a little bit about you or at least personality absolutely

22:00

absolutely So speaking of you as a leader and you so your book lead don’t

22:07

manage you wrote that during covid is that right that was the a little bit before but yes finalized it and everything yes got it so you speak to

22:15

the difference between conventional leadership and transformational Leadership and I know so much of your

22:21

brand and what you speak on as around leadership and we don’t have enough time today to get into all the things but I

22:26

want to ask you a couple of high level questions that I think will be really valuable to our audience so can you

22:32

speak first and foremost to what is that difference and how do we become transformational leaders versus

22:37

conventional leaders so conventional leadership um hierarchical um I have a

22:43

downline um I I’m I’m more concerned with are you in the office today versus not in the office um transformational um

22:52

I work on a team I have 125 employees we’re a team um the uh my receptionist

22:59

as is important to me as my CIO she has a different function but she’s part of the team she is the first interaction

23:06

that anyone has with my company either telephonically or when they’re walking in that first impression is important to

23:11

me and it’s important to the company so how do you value your team members and do they feel valued um do they know that

23:19

you care about them um I have a personal I try to create a personal connection

23:24

with almost every one of my employees um what are their kids names what are pets names what do they do on the weekends um

23:31

it’s important to me that they know I’m invested in them not only just as a an employee but as a person I would argue

23:37

that’s different today that’s a different type of leader today than what we were taught As Leaders 30 years

23:45

ago more of that more of that you were talking about the leader before sit down make your 100 dials right um not really

23:51

concerned with what you do on the weekends that’s your personal time um get to know your employees um an

23:57

employee who is having trouble at home isn’t a happy employee at work and is probably less productive get to know

24:03

what their issues are maybe you can assist or maybe you can help or give them a little bit more time off so they

24:08

can fix the things at home and become a better employee at home that’s a transformational leader that’s a leader

24:13

who is invested in his employees not just financially mentally physically um

24:19

those things matter and um that that’s probably the easiest thing for me to

24:25

base it on yeah no it’s it’s great and again it’s I I sense it could be a much deeper dive conversation too one thing I

24:31

want to ask based on that is let’s say that we’re leading someone and we can we

24:37

can tell that they’re having a hard time right and you said find out what’s going on how do we obviously there has to be a

24:42

foundation of trust laid ahead of time for that but how do you enter into that conversation with someone without making

24:48

them feel defensive or like they can’t share what’s going on how would you open up to that um that’s a good question and

24:56

especially as a boss right sometimes it’s really and if I’m honest some employees will

25:01

never share information with their boss for fear of oh I don’t want my boss to think I’m not doing I’m not doing a good enough job or

25:08

something like that they don’t necessarily have to have to they don’t have to share it with me all the time

25:14

right we have an HR department we have managers um their upline manager um they have peers in the company

25:21

um but I think it I I think it starts it stems from trust right what kind of relationship do you have with your

25:27

employees you’re right if I if I didn’t know my employees names and I didn’t know their their family names you’re right there would be no basis of trust

25:33

um I think if you’re a genuine person that really likes their employees and and and is concerned with them there’s already that basis there um but what I

25:41

would tell my employees and what we have said is make sure someone knows that we can help you so that we can assist in

25:48

the time of need um I spend so much more time at the office than I do at home I am concerned with people um I’ve had

25:55

rough patches in my life where I didn’t give my work 100 % of course that that’s

26:00

life um I often share that listen I understand I’ve been in situations where

26:05

I went through a divorce 20 some odd years ago when when you’re going through that you’re not giving it all at work I

26:11

let people know it that’s true I I’ve lived it so I might share a personal story to say listen if things are

26:17

happening at home I get it if you need a couple you know couple hours off or a day hey let’s let’s let’s sit down with

26:23

your manager in HR and see if we can’t work that out um I think it’s just that it’s Maybe Just sh priming the pump

26:30

right share a little bit about yourself or that you’ve been in a situation that that was struggling um listen any CEO

26:37

entrepreneur has had rough times every single one um whether it’s not knowing

26:44

where the next customer comes from or the next paycheck or or or job security everyone’s gone through that share a

26:50

little bit of that let people know yeah I was scared I didn’t know where my next paycheck was coming from that often helps yeah perfect which

26:59

is again again buzzword but the authenticity piece that ties in with that as well so let’s say that someone

27:05

is listening Mark and they’re hearing okay so you’re leading 120 employees you’ve got this Mega team that you’re

27:12

leading and maybe they are a solopreneur and maybe they have a VA so let’s just

27:18

say have a VA but they know it’s time to scale and they are done wearing all the

27:24

hats can you speak a little bit to how do we approach hiring and leadership in

27:29

those really early stages where we’re bringing on our first couple of employees and then maybe any mistakes or

27:36

pitfalls that we should avoid yeah uh the first thing is to be really honest

27:41

with yourself um lots of good salespeople aren’t good

27:46

managers and that just is and that’s okay they’re great salespeople um lots

27:51

of salespeople don’t know how to manage people and are very difficult managers because they expect people to be just

27:57

like them so the first I would say is take an inventory of yourself who are you what are your strong suits um if

28:04

you’re not a good manager you need to find someone who possibly is a good manager right so be honest with who you

28:10

are and understand who you are understand exactly what you need the

28:16

position to do um often times people will turn to a family member or someone that a

28:23

cooworker that that that or or a peer that just ran out of work and they and they hire the wrong person right because

28:30

they they they’re they’re friendly they know someone who’s out of work so they’re going to put them in but they’re not really they’re not a fit for the

28:35

role that’s a challenge make sure you understand what the role is what are you

28:41

hiring for what are the five or six or seven accountabilities you’re going to pay for and make sure that they’re very

28:48

clear this is uh at least I’m hiring you these are the five to seven things I need that that essentially your job

28:54

revolves around there might be some other things but these are the accountabilities I need you to do and then make sure I’m matching the

28:59

right person with those accountabilities the right skill set got it and then make the leap yeah make the leap um you will

29:07

be surprised much like most entrepreneurs did when they decided to become entrepreneurs they made the leap

29:14

and many of them will say it was the scariest but best thing I ever did I often hear that same about hiring an

29:19

employee I was so afraid I couldn’t give up the X number of dollars to hire someone and many of them will say the

29:25

first employee was the hardest and then they did it and their business boomed um just make the leap so do it

29:33

before you’re ready which is what people say I think it’s a general good rule of th for life right yeah and with those

29:39

accountabilities so this is maybe getting really granular by the way in case you can’t tell sometimes podcast

29:45

episodes or coaching sessions for release that everyone gets to listen in and benefit from so this is really

29:50

helpful thank you with those accountabilities are those all are any of them results like you’re accountable

29:56

for X results or is it all action driven because you believe if someone’s taking the right actions we’re going to get the

30:02

results as a natural byproduct good question and I wish there was a flat answer but it all depends on who you’re

30:08

hiring and what you’re hiring for and I’ll say what you’re hiring for not who you’re hiring um if you’re an

30:14

entrepreneur Financial professional it might be admin work and that’s the thing I see the most you’re not hiring someone

30:20

to call on your customers you might be calling them to do service work right call on a customer to make sure they got

30:26

their policy or answer any questions but you’re really help that that person generally speaking in financial services

30:32

your first hire is someone to help you do administrative work right so making sure that um they

30:39

understand what they’re doing answering the phone taking messages setting appointment times resetting appointment

30:44

times calling the companies that you represent following up on paperwork um right documenting things those might be

30:52

action oriented items that you are taking a look at how well they’re doing

30:57

are they setting my appointments how old do they speak on the phone are they going through all of the different

31:02

companies that I have to call and make sure things are updated right that’s tactical and you can actually see that

31:08

they’re doing a good job or not doing a good job that’s that’s for us in the in that type of environment if you’re a a

31:15

small entrepreneur who owns a coffee shop it might be your first employee at the coffee shop right someone that’s

31:21

going to make the coffee those are more yes these are how do they greet the customer um when they’re really riled up

31:26

and it’s super busy can they still make all the coffee and make sure that they’re uh you know uh pulling things

31:33

from the supply room I I’m making things up but H those those might be a little bit of Personality right how is the

31:39

personality fitting in and are they doing the work that they need to get done so it all depends on the role

31:44

you’re trying to fill but you have to be really specific to the employee what you’re holding them accountable for they

31:52

might come back and say well I didn’t know I was supposed to stock the store room when the truck came you never told me that I was supposed to agree

31:57

customers make coffee so there was a breakdown in communication and now it’s not fair because you you set an

32:04

expectation that the employee didn’t didn’t understand so again clear expectations of what I’m doing and how well are you communicating with them

32:10

makes total sense raising my hand as someone who has said wait you’re not a mind reader when I’m clear that they’re

32:15

absolutely reading my mind so speaking of that and just a couple more questions here and so good um but I want to speak

32:22

to the accountability piece a little bit and I’ll just share with a lot of the members of our community and gosh even

32:27

if my own life too I know that when I am tasked with holding someone accountable

32:33

it can feel uncomfortable right it doesn’t feel good and I think there could be this pendulum swing and again

32:39

I’ll just I’ll be vulnerable and transparent here and say this is something that I’ve experienced in my own leadership style which is why I’m

32:46

working on intentionally how can I grow and cultivate in this area where it’s almost an extreme from going like you

32:52

have to either micromanage and no one wants to do that we don’t want to micromanage but we feel like we have to

32:58

to maybe just wanting to let people go free range and do whatever they want to do so obviously there’s some sort of a

33:04

middle ground and balance between those two if someone is listening and they’re saying yes I have done that pendulum

33:11

swing yes I relate to what least just said how do we find and cultivate that

33:17

balance in leaderships ourselves the biggest one of the biggest I don’t want to call it a mistake but one of the

33:23

biggest one of the toughest things for any person that manages someone is is I’m being a bad guy no one wants

33:31

to feel like a bad guy yeah no I I don’t believe anyone want like it’s an uncomfortable feeling so now I have to

33:37

come to an employee who isn’t doing a very good job and I have to tell them that um I don’t want to be the bad guy

33:44

and so some oftentimes we don’t or we let it go on way too long or they become a disruption um you’re really if you if

33:51

you view it a little bit differently that you’re doing them a disservice I know that if I told you if

33:57

I came to a seminar that you were giving and I had some things that critiques that might make you better as an

34:04

entrepreneur most people want to be better even as people we want to be better if I ever said something to

34:10

offend you I would be horrified please tell me if I offended you the same way with work hey you know we had an

34:16

expectation to do this I thought I was pretty clear about it if you’re having trouble getting it done please share

34:22

that with me but right now I’m not seeing the results I I’m not seeing the effort that I thought I was supposed to

34:27

get um having that conversation is a benefit not only to me because I need the job

34:34

done but it’s a benefit to my employee to know where they stand it might not be a good fit it might not be that you’re

34:41

the perfect person for the role in which case it’s better for you to move on and it’s better for me to move them on um

34:47

that’s a tough conversation and a lot of people shy away from that it’s the number one mistake I think most even companies make is they’re they’re not

34:55

giving a fair assessment of the work being done and often times in big companies I get rid of the person I

35:01

don’t like in my department I send them off to another department well that’s not solving the problem for the company that’s just solving the problem within the department yeah um so I I think it’s

35:08

being honest and again it’s all about communication how do I speak to you listen we’ve all had those uncomfortable

35:14

conversations with a significant other um or you should right uh something doesn’t feel right um you end up scared

35:21

of that conversation but oftentimes it’s the best conversation you ever had because now they understand how you feel

35:28

um so I would challenge people to have those types of conversation the minute you feel it something isn’t feeling

35:34

right and even say that hey something isn’t feeling right um you know I asked you to do these four things only two of

35:39

them get done is it something you need from me maybe I’m holding you back maybe I am micromanaging you and and my

35:45

employee turns around and goes yeah you’re over my shoulder all the time I’m so self-conscious I’m afraid of doing anything that’s a really fair answer and

35:52

I wouldn’t get it unless I asked them so that’s probably I I I know it’s easier

35:57

said than done so I you know I know it’s easier said than done but much like any difficult conversation we usually feel

36:04

so much better after having them yes and I appreciate what you shared about the moment you feel it address it yeah

36:10

because it is the most uncomfortable thing to do but the more it sits there and stews that it’s not going to get any

36:15

better as well so yeah absolutely let me ask three final questions so first one

36:24

what do you hope your legacy is as a leader um I’m super honest and transparent

36:31

about the fact that um few years after I’m gone no one will remember who I am right like that’s that you know thing

36:37

about old bosses that You’ had yeah I want as my legacy I’d really like um

36:42

there’s a phrase I heard long ago if I can help you get where you want to go I’ll get where I want to go yeah um I I

36:49

would hope that people would say you know what he was invested in me and he he really helped me or he gave me some

36:55

advice or he was just a kind person um that would be wonderful for me it was

37:01

great working for him he a few people have moved across the country to work for me it was the greatest compliment

37:06

ever wow they literally picked up their families to come work with me I was so humbled by that that’s probably the

37:12

best something that anyone ever did for me um I would hope that that would be my legacy just a good guy to work for yeah

37:20

amazing something I love asking when we have men on the show since this is a

37:25

it’s primarily women listening sure is I’d love to pay tribute to an important woman in your life so if you think about

37:32

um a woman in your life who’s important to you without a doubt think about it there you go so your wife so what’s the

37:39

number one life lesson that you’ve learned from your wife um my wife makes me and it’s such a cliche she makes me

37:45

want to be a better person um she is supportive she pushes back when I’m not

37:51

right when I’m wrong and she isn’t shy to say it um she is always in my corner

37:57

um she has um been supportive told me not to do things when I was going to do something stupid um she uh

38:06

she’s I give her 85% of My Success yeah wow that’s beautiful y final question

38:14

and this is um this one is simple but if someone wants to go to connect with you to learn more about what you do listen

38:20

to your podcast read the book find out about the how they can partner with you what’s the best way for people to

38:26

connect you so I do have a it sounds so funny I have a website markwilliams.com I would

38:35

really invite people to reach out on LinkedIn as well I I do respond to to messages that I get on LinkedIn 

38:41

unless you’re trying to sell me something that I don’t need um but in general um if you’d like to reach out if you’d like to have a conversation if

38:47

you’re interested in something that we talked about if you want me as a speaker I’d love to do that as well um my website’s got all of my information my

38:54

contact information all of that so that’s the best spot perfect will link it in the show notes it’s markwilliams.com

38:59

but we’ll put the link there and we’ll link to your LinkedIn as well this was so fun thank you like I said I’m really I’m getting so much out

39:05

of reading your book um so whether someone is in financial services or not

39:11

if you want to grow and make an impact in the world and help serve others I cannot recommend enough um get Mark’s

39:17

book we’ll link it in the show notes as well lead don’t manage connect with him and uh go share this episode as well

39:24

with someone who you think can benefit from it so mark thank you again for being here today this is great super fun I uh again thank you so much for asking

39:31

and wish you the best of luck thank you thank you so much thank you all right my listener thank you as always for tuning

39:36

in like I said we’ll link all the goodies so you can connect with Mark and his work in the show notes thank you as

39:41

always for being a listener of She Sells Radio and we’ll see you on our next episode bye for now.