Welcome to she sells radio Laura. It’s so great to have you on. She sells radio. Welcome.

Thank you so much for having me. We already had so much fun in the green room.

Cannot wait for this conversation. I know. I was like, wait, stop. Let me hit record because I feel like this is going exactly direction that I want it to. And it’s just cool to hear about, you know, the work you’re doing and some of the people you’re working with as well as your mindset around business and flexibility and client acquisition. And I think that is something that is so needed in the sales space. You know, whether you are a seven figure entrepreneur, like the women you work with or whether you’re starting out a little bit earlier in your journey. So we’re going to have so much goodness to share for our listeners today. So let’s just start with, you know, a little bit about why you do the work that you do. So you’ve got, you know, you’re sharing in the chat, you, this is your sixth business. Now you clearly have a really, really successful long history as an entrepreneur. And I want to hear from you kind of how you got into this work and, and what you’re driving. Why is, and what got you to where you are today? We’ll start with that. Okay.

Oh, good. Yeah. So I have been an entrepreneur for a awhile. I was saying 15 years then I realized I was saying 15 years for several years in a row. So I’m going on 20 years of being an entrepreneur. I started when I was 12, just kidding. And but I did start several years out of college and I started out as a wedding photographer. I grew to become one of the top wedding photographers in the Northeast, and I was speaking and teaching on the topic of the business of photography. By the time I was 30, I had an education business as well as a photography studio. I opened up a couple of portrait studios in the Philadelphia area, grew that to a multi-million dollar business. Then I franchised it grew that to 12 locations across the country. And then about two and a half years ago, I was very much disrupted.

There was so many changes in the industry when it came to photography. And also I just realized that the franchise or franchisee dynamic was not, for me. It was not a, a game that I wanted to play in the longterm. And so for a couple of different reasons, I ended up walking away from a multi-million dollar company and starting from scratch. I actually had to file for bankruptcy. I went through a lot of really difficult moments that I had never experienced before, because up until that point, everything I had done had gone relatively well. And it was something that really what happens, I think when you have to begin again, and when you go through disruption and transformation, you come out on the other side, more of who you were when you went into it. So I really believe I came out more aware, more sensitive, more just dedicated to who I am on the inside independent of the business that I was running at any given time.

And it was really interesting because when I decided that this was something that I was going to close the door on, and I’m a person of faith, and I really felt like the Lord was closing the door for me. At that time, I texted a CEO group that I was friends with of brands that you probably would know, and you’ve been to, and I said, okay, friends I’m done here, I’m waving the white flag I’m done with franchising. I know you’ve done well with it, but this is not for me. This is not my movie. And one by one, they said, you know, Laura, I’m so sorry. I know how much you’ve put into this and I know how hard you’ve worked and I know how well respected you are in your industry. And can you look at my marketing and can you talk to my marketing director?

And can you help me look at sales? And can you help me with some sales scripting? And can you look at this because some guy created it and it really feels off-brand for me, it feels like not my style and I, and I’m questioning it. And I don’t know whether or not it’s me or it’s him or what the, what the deal is. And can you talk to this new person that I just got into my, my that I just brought on as a CEO of my company, he just came from pure bar and I think he needs somebody like you to head up marketing. And it was just, it started so fast and I really didn’t totally embrace it. I think for a couple months I had to kind of recover from what I would just gone through. And then I realized that I absolutely love the work of being a growth consultant.

And in the last few years, coming from a really low place, I’ve been able to grow multi six figure business in a pretty short period of time, again, as a consultant working very part-time having had my third baby four months ago. Thank you. And so that is about you know, almost 20 years and maybe a few minutes, but where I am today, as I have the honor of serving other seven-figure women and some husband, wife teams, but mainly women or female focused brands in a capacity that I wished I had when I was in their shoes. Like I am that business bestie, strategic advisor, fractional CMO, kind of all in one, helping them grow their teams when they’ve really outgrown programs or off the shelf solutions. And I help them customize what the next million is going to look like for them. And it’s a really fun and rewarding and intellectually challenging role. And I very much see myself as a business consultant, not as much of a coach, but you know an old-school consultant looking at the P and L’s with them and setting up metrics and really helping them grow their teams.

You know, I love, gosh, your story is inspiring. And a lot of ways to me, and I can relate to a lot of what you shared. And one of the pieces was you kind of recognizing that in the, you know, the franchise world, your work was done. And I think for any of us who have maybe take something, taking something as far as it can go. And sometimes, and I think part of the mindset that we can struggle with too is the, and this is maybe more kind of the masculine linear mindset, but something should always just keep growing and growing and growing. And I just need to put more work into it and I just need to have some more, and I just need to find a different funnel and I need to do this differently. Right. And a lot of what my learning has been over the past, maybe three to four years has been sometimes when the faucet shuts off, it shuts off hard and fast.

It is for a reason that you were just not meant to be in that space anymore, doing that thing anymore. And it sounds like for you, there was a pretty quick opening of this is what you’re meant to be doing, moving into your business consulting and growth consulting, but there can also kind of be that period of discomfort of what’s next. And and, and one of the things I’ve learned from my own personal coaches, the feminine is a lot about the inquiry being in the question, not like being okay with not knowing yet what’s coming in for me personally, that drives me nuts. So that is a growth area for me. But for you personally, when you’ve been in transition like this, how do you, first of all, how do you get, I don’t know if comfortable is the right word, but like, how do you know when it’s time to make a pivot? And then how do you maybe mentally wrap your head around that and get comfortable with kind of just speaking it out loud and taking that next action.

It was extremely traumatic for me personally, and I think it’s okay for it to say that I had been in Inc entrepreneur working mother Forbes and foster bankruptcy within a 12 month period. So it was extreme. It was a high high, and then a very low, low, and ultimately it was the personal guarantee on my commercial lease. And it wasn’t even that I had any personal debt. So it was extremely humiliating, embarrassing. It was a really difficult time. And I think as entrepreneurs, what we, what we often forget is who we are, is not connected to what we do. What we do is is very much born from our heart and soul, but it doesn’t have to define us. And when we can be flexible about how our gifts and talents show up in the world, a lot of times the next step, the next best, yes, for you will show up and beginning again is not when something ends.

It’s usually when transformation starts and that’s been very much my own journey. And so while I go in typically as a growth consultant, I go in because people aren’t happy with where their sales are, or there’ve been plateauing, or maybe they’ve been investing in more marketing, and it hasn’t been doing giving them the result that it had been providing in the past. That’s a lot of reasons why I come in. I also tend to come in very much as a, as a partner, helping entrepreneurs who are flying at high altitudes, remember that they are more than their business and the more successful we become a lot of times, the easier it is to forget that. And we forget that even if everything went away tomorrow, even if the whole business collapsed, hopefully your marriage is still strong. Your friends still like you, if they don’t well, it’s great that they let you know that now they are that your dog still thinks you’re great that you still have a really nice relationship with your kids.

And those are the most important components because when we can’t, when we’re not followed in that foundation, I think it’s, we’re always grasping right at our identity within the entrepreneurial journey. And that was something that I had to, to really, I think, fully experience failure in that way to find the freedom and actually having fun, actually having fun with, okay, let’s see if this challenge works. Let’s see if this next thing works. Let’s look around the corner and see what’s next for not only my business, but for the people I serve and making it joyful because when, when we are missing that joyful component, then it can just start to really feel like a grind. Oh yeah,

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I, I think you probably will have great perspective on this because this is a lot of what you do. And also just thank you for sharing your, kind of your lived experience in this you know, for someone who feels like they are maybe stuck or at a plateau, even in their business or in their sales, what are some of the questions they should be asking themselves? Like, what should she be asking herself? Just to start kind of getting some direction there.

A hundred percent of my spec spread too thin, like, am I just trying to do too many things? And I haven’t actually done one thing well, in a really long time. And what happens is, is that as we grow our businesses, and I know many of the people who are listening are thinking, I’d love to just hit six figures, Laura, this is going to be true for you at no matter, no matter what stage is that as you become more successful, the opportunities start coming your way. And it’s really important at a certain point to be able to say no. In addition to saying yes, and for many, many people, they just keep adding on the yeses as their business grows, but they don’t actually get rid of anything. And that’s when people are spinning in circles, but they have this amazing opportunity. They’re sitting on this huge email list or they’re working, they’re showing up in the space book group. They really haven’t made an offer in a long time. So sometimes I come in and I just, I feel kind of bad, but I point out the obvious, like maybe you should make those people an offer. They’d probably like to buy it from you.

And that’s kind of fun, but for many people, they just they’re, they’re going and when way too many different directions and they can’t the single best opportunity that’s in front of them. And for some of my multiple seven figure clients, what I do in the first 30 to 60 days is just tell them to get what to get rid of. They’ve been wanting to say no to this, or get rid of this thing, or they know it’s not on brand for them, or it’s not within the alignment for them, but they just needed someone’s permission to say, I probably should say no to that.

Yeah, that’s so good. And so true. And I think regardless of where you are in your journey of your revenue and business, having that clarity, that when you do get spread too thin, that’s when the growth typically stops and, and getting clear early on, what am I going to say no to? Right? That’s actually, one of the things we have our clients do at brand builders group is do I guess in a no list. And it’s okay, I’ve identified this next level that I’m wanting to reach, whether it’s in revenue or in my brand impact, what are the things that are going to be a yes, like a heck yeah. For me to get there. And then what are the things that are just a no, and then it’s really, it’s easier to do that before the opportunity is presented to almost a preemptive strike and even getting some accountability around it from your partner, you know, colleagues to say, Hey, you said you weren’t gonna go speak for free anymore. You said you weren’t going to, whatever that thing is. Cause then, you know, the opportunity will come up and you’re like, Oh, but I, I, you know, I like it, or I want to, or so it sounds like really owning. What’s a yes. And what’s a no for you and living by that.

Yeah. The predators principle always applies. And the previous principal, for those of you who might not be familiar, it’s the 80 20 rule. So whether you are just getting your first $10,000 in the door,

Were you are going

Towards the eight figure, Mark there’s most of the time 20% of what you’re doing is creating 80% of the result. Yeah. And you, a lot of times what happens is we’ve got this little thing over here and this little thing over here and this little thing over here, and we haven’t run the numbers on all of the little things in a really long time. We’re realizing that the thing that takes the least amount of effort, actually, sometimes it’s bringing in the most revenue. And so when I first come into an organization, it’s one of the first things I do. I find out what the founder wants most for her life, where the gap is between where she is and where she wants to be. And I’m looking for the shortest distance between point a and point B to guide her there. So we set up a tracking system, we put some reports into place, and then we’re constantly adjusting the sales against where we said we were going to be and its unique role because it’s really not coaching. It’s not a group program. It’s me rolling up my sleeves with my team and going deep into a company and giving them a level of service that is kind of hard to find. And it’s something that I’ve fallen into. And I just, again, love that work so much.

Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s so valuable. And as you talk, I think about so I have a three and a half month old, so he’s not, we had babies right around the same time we were just going back all those. But I think about

When I was preparing for for taking some time off this summer, my baby, I had to really look at how can I work way less because I’m going to have to for awhile. And I was working, this is embarrassing to admit, but probably like 60 plus hour, weeks every week. And I looked at what was actually making me money, Laura. It was like one day a week, I was doing stuff that was making me money and I could take 60 hours and turn it into like eight and make the same amount of money. And I did. And I’ve actually grown my money through that focus of just saying, Oh, this is all this other stuff really didn’t matter. So thank you for bringing that up because it is so true when we get, so just we accumulate and rack on all this stuff. And then it’s, you know, before, you know what you’re doing, all this work, that’s not really high impact or high leverage. So yes, they went, who’s listening. We’re giving you permission to get rid of that. Right? Oh man. All of the obligations and the sacred cows and all of the, with that person, I really feel bad because of X, Y, Z. And you know, they’ve got this thing going on. So I hire them full time, but they only work three days a year.

[Inaudible] A lot of times then we have a lot of times they come in and I just am like, okay, help you.

I haven’t looked at my P and L in for, you know, six months. And one of my clients likened it to, you know, getting on the scale to get the, after having binged during the holidays,

I’m going to hold your hand and we’re going to get on the scale together and we’re going to open a group and we’re going to see what’s going on. So, so scary. [inaudible]

Great role. Because again, one of the reasons, my there’s lots of reasons why I had to walk. And one of the many reasons why my multiple seven figure business didn’t work out. But one of which is that I didn’t have the right people in my inner circle. I wasn’t discerning. And I wasn’t careful enough about who I let have access to me and my proprietary IP and my financials. And there was some really good people on my inner circle. And there were some people who did not have my best interest in mind at all. And I found out the hard way. And so it is so rewarding to, to know that I’m that person for them. Yeah. And that I am in strict confidentiality. And I’m so careful with them because again, when you’re at that level, people are always trying to figure out what they can get from you. And it’s not a bad thing. It’s not, it’s not negative on those, on the other folks that are always trying to figure out what the opportunity is to connect with you. Of course, it’s human nature, but when you’re on the receiving end of that, it can be a really lonely place at the top. And so that’s something that’s just been so, so rewarding for me to fill that role.

So I want to do this is a little bit off the topic that I want to go to next, but I do want to do just quick little like pit stop on what you said there. Cause I think that was really important. One of my missions and goals with this show is to help them and learn how to trust themselves and trust their intuition. And I think we suppress that for various reasons. As we, as we grow up and then hopefully get back in touch with it at some point, did you have an inkling that not all the players on your team had your best interests at heart and you kind of suppressed it? Or where did you not? Like, I’m just curious what that dynamic was like for you.

I completely ignored my intuition completely. And I did not want to have really hard conversations because I know I knew at the time those really hard conversations could end up in legal battles or they could end up in major conflict. And the truth is I ended up there anyways. And so what did I have to lose now? I’m very fearless about those conversations. If I get the sense that there is something happening, I nip it in the bud right away with a client or the client’s team member, I’ll say, Hey, this is what I’m noticing. I just want to let you know. And at the time I think I just told myself, I’m so tired. I’m so exhausted. I had two little kids I’m growing this big business. And now I’m realizing you. You can’t afford not to have those conversations when your intuition is telling you, something’s not right.

You can’t afford not to. And you really can’t afford to keep people on your team who are showing their true colors a little bit at a time, but you think, Oh my gosh, to replace them to train them would be so hard. And that’s very natural. And it’s very normal, especially when you’ve got a lot to lose. It’s extremely understandable. I just coached one of my clients going through this. She lost an assistant in a very short period of time because she was ramping up and the assistant didn’t want to work that hard, to be honest and and started getting nasty about it. And I just said, you can’t afford this because at the end of the day, she can move on and get another role. And this is your livelihood. And I don’t know about you, but my kids like to eat and sleep indoors. So we are going to be saying bye-bye to her and moving on very fast and making sure that this next launch goes extremely well for you.

Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. Thank you for that. I was just curious. Cause I had a hunch. I was like, I’m sure you’ve felt it and didn’t want to deal with it, which I’ve been there too. But I, I do, I think as women, we are, we are intuitive. We sense things. And then we can get up here in our heads and say, well, that doesn’t make sense. Or that’s going to be so much work to get that new person in place. So thank you for that. I am curious, cause we were talking a little bit in the chat ahead of time about your philosophy around sales and I love what you were saying. I was like, stop hold the process. Tell us about, tell us about your relationship with sales. Has it been a love affair from the start? Has it been a murder mystery? Has it been? I love this and it just came to me. I don’t know.

I’m probably slow to people are listening are like, Oh my goodness,

You have my number. I mean,

I think when it comes to sales, I am very much, I market my way to sales. I’m one of those people and I love sales, but I love it from a relationship standpoint. And I said something to one of my clients the other day who has a huge following and is published by a big national publisher. I said, and she’s a little hesitant to sell and it’s because she’s such a big thought leader. And so well-respected in her, her field. And I said, when you’re very, very clear on your brand message and your strategy and who you help and how sales become service. And I think sometimes when we are thinking about sales, we’re thinking about it from a place of a getting, but when we can think about sales from a place of how can I serve and what can I give then it becomes a total flip.

And when I get on the phone with somebody, for example, I have no agenda as to whether or not they’re going to come on with me as a client. I’m most interested in making sure that I can help them. And if I’m not the right person, I find somebody who can, and I have a very specific person that I can help. And with the type of person that I’m looking to help, I try to get my retainer back in their pocket within 90 days or less. And so that is something that I’m looking for. And if I don’t think I can do that, I’ll let them know that. And I think when we look to sell a lot of times, we’re looking for that gap because we’re just not secure enough in our offer or how we can create value for the person that is in front of us.

And for men, a lot of times, the way that they sell is how can I convince, how can I control? How can I strong arm? How can I do this subconscious selling type of Ninja move? And for women, we don’t want to be sold that way and we don’t want to sell that way. We want to do it from a place of serving and from intuition and knowing that, yes, this is somebody who I want to work with. I have this need. And again, when we’re not clear on our transformation, sometimes that that component is missing. I think for a lot of people. Yeah.

Oh my gosh, what you just said is pure gold. I’m like frantically, frantically taking notes. And I appreciate you saying that to Laura because I come from a corporate sales background and then I’ve been a sales coach working within an international organization and I’ve also run my own business. I’ve had kind of all these different angles on the sales side, but so much of what my training and conditioning was, was like you said, it’s about the get it’s. How can you strong arm? It’s how can you convince? It’s like, there’s a winner and a loser and it’s, it’s not, it doesn’t feel natural to women to sell that way. And so I so appreciate that. You said that, and I also appreciate your kind of your benchmark of can I help them make their money back in 90 days or less? I think that’s a really strong way to think about it. We could all kind of formulate our own version of that is an assessment of whether to work with a client or not.

Yeah. And it’s really about, I think for sales, a lot of women get, we get in our own head and we forget that it’s fundamentally what us marketing geeks call the market product match. You know, it’s just like, what does the, what’s the market demand for this? What’s the offer? Can I match my audience to my offer? How well can I do that? And it’s not about what you’re worth. And so I want to just dispel this really fast for everybody who’s listening. If you’re sitting there going, I need to charge what I’m worth. I want to challenge that. I think that is a misnomer in the, in this whole space because here’s the truth. We’re all worth every single penny of a bazillion dollars, right? We’re all children of God, we’re all worth the same amount and that is priceless. But what is the market willing to pay for?

The transformation of my offer is a most important question. What is the spend tolerance? What is the, elasticy the price elasticity for the offer that I have, and for somebody who is a B2C offer, let’s say that your health or your wellness or your parenting, it may be very different because you can’t get somebody, you know, you can’t provide a growth strategy. That’s going to get your payment back in 90 days, but you might have a very different type of transformation that has a very different value proposition. And with that, create a structure that’s extremely profitable for you. So I want to just let go of the charge, what you’re worth. I think it’s actually really providing a disservice to women entrepreneurs.

I have never heard it put that way, but that makes so much sense. It’s so true because you’re right. If you look at self-worth and then it’s like, we’re trying to put a dollar amount on our self worth, which I agree with you wholeheartedly. There is no way to do that. We are infinitely valuable. And so it’s, it takes it back to that place of service to say, what is, you know, what is the market willing to bear? What would work for the person who I want to serve and what would be inappropriate price point for that? It takes it off of you and makes it about them, which is really what it’s about. Right?

Exactly. And then your business structure can follow. So should I charge a course or a group program or a membership or should I be high ticket one-on-one then you can have a business structure that matches the product market match.

Mm, this is good. Oh, this is good. Okay. Okay. This is why we hire

[Inaudible].

I love a podcast moment. I always kind of look at it as it’s it’s I’ve tried to be very generous and content and I selfishly feel like I can amazing coaching from all of my guests too. So so thank you for that because I’m shifting my thinking here and that’s really, really helpful for me. So thank you. You know, I know Laura, you work, so you’re very clear on your market, which I think is a great lesson that we can also take as listeners of just the extreme clarity you have on the women. You serve seven sounds like seven, is it seven figures or multiple seven figures is the,

Yeah. Typically. So it’s low seven figures is typically where I come in. And for all of you who are thinking, Oh, when I hit a million, my life is going to be amazing. It’s still tricky at that place, the low seven figures, you’re still figuring out your team dynamics and your talent, and you’re still scaling your offer. And and that’s typically, we’re all coming on the low end and then the high end, close to 10 million. Usually when people cross the 10 million, somewhere between 10 and 20 they’ll need somebody like me in house. And I always tell my clients that someday you’ll outgrow me. And they’re like, no, I will not. I guess you will. And I will help you. I will help you find a chief marketing officer, vice president of marketing and bring it in house. But until then, I’m here for you.

So I want to ask you a kind of a two part question as we, as we wrap up here, because typically I want to know from my guests what your advice would be for a woman who is looking to break her first six figures. So I want to ask that first, and then we’re going to kind of talk about the journey after that. So what would you say, what would you say to a woman who hasn’t crossed that first threshold yet

For six figures? I think it’s just making sure that first of all, you’ve been extremely clear vision and that you are open to how that vision she goes up. So be really committed to your why, but be flexible in the how, and sometimes we can get very attached to the how in the beginning stages of entrepreneurship. Well, I’ve been at this for a year and I’ve made three sales. Well then probably time to adjust your offer or think a little bit differently about the, how, but don’t ever let go of your, why, what drives you, your values, the vision that you have for yourself or for the people that you serve. And I think when we can be very committed to the how, but be flex, I mean, very committed to the why, but be very flexible with the how. And the second thing I’d say is let it be fun.

And I think in the early stages, particular can be very stressful. We can, wherever person that we get on the phone with, we think, Oh my gosh, this is going to make or break my business. And all the pressure starts coming in from the outside. And I would encourage you to let it be fun. I’m curious, is this going to be somebody who will be my client? Or is this not the person for me? If I take on this client, do I love this niche? Or am I going to find out that actually I should probably specialize in a different area of business and let it let it unfold and let it be curious and enjoy it.

I love that advice. I love that advice. And then the second kind of special question I want to ask you as a follow-up to that is because of what you do and your experience for a woman who has broken that threshold. And now is looking to scale to seven figures or beyond advice. And there’s no secret sauce, but words of wisdom for a woman who is looking to then scale to that level,

Going from multi seven, six figures to seven fingers is doubling down on what is working and getting rid of anything. That’s not. And many times, again, we have these reasons that this needs to stay on my plate, or we need to do it that way, or I need that’s what’s, that’s the only way it’s going to work for my organization, or that’s the only way I can train people. And when we can start surprising ourselves on our way to seven figures that’s again, when it starts becoming really fun, here’s something else to know. You can hustle your way to seven figures, but you cannot hustle your way past it. So the sooner that you can start being open to systemizing your business and working differently in the beginning stages, it’s really fun. You go out and you’re a little bit of a Hunter you’re going out and you’re hunting and you’re getting that business and you’re bringing it back.

And it’s so exciting. And you’re like, Oh my gosh, is this going to work? Oh my gosh, it’s working. And then when you start getting closer to seven figures, you need to start working differently or else the whole thing can come crashing down. And what I mean by working differently is starting to trust other people, starting to empower them, starting to become a good manager. In addition to becoming a good leader, starting to be open to the idea that you’re not the only person in your company that can do things well. When people come to you don’t solve every problem. Like whack-a-mole be willing to coach them through it so that they can grow and develop within their own skillset. So we start working differently and every stage of entrepreneurship is completely contingent on the founder or the CEO’s willingness to change. And and just, you know, new level, new devil. And that’s what happens. And again, that’s why I think entrepreneurship is the single most incredible opportunity for personal development, probably in addition to parenting, that’s the only other place we’re learning that where we learned so much about ourselves and when we can, again, not let every little blip mean something like, Oh, we shouldn’t be doing this, but let it become part of our self development journey. That’s when entrepreneurship gets really fun.

Wow. There were so many good lessons in there. Thank you. And I think one of the recurring themes of today that showed up for me is flexibility and openness to what’s coming to, Hey, if this is no longer working the way I thought it would, there’s something better adaptability. And then that kind of continued just up-level at every stage. So thank you. Thank you so much, Laura. This has been so cool to just to learn from you and I can see why you’re behind the scenes of so many of these, you know, these brands that we know and that we, we, we work with quite a few name recognized brands and that we know and trust. So thank you for that. Tell us about where we can connect with you. I know you’ve got some exciting things in the works coming up in the next few months and next year. So tell us about that too, please.

So we so I have so many great, wonderful clients. In addition to that, I’m partnering with Kelly Roach, who is a friend of mine, and we’re going to be launching a community for experts, for people who would like to grow their own consulting business. One-On-One high ticket consulting business, and that community is launching in February and we don’t have all of the details quite in place yet, but make sure to just at least follow me on Instagram at Laura E. Meyer, send me a direct message. I am one of those people that I just love being generous. And so if you want to send me a message, say, wow, this spoke to me, or honestly, I’d love to do what you do someday. Tell me how I would just love to hear from you and connect with you and pour into you because I’m such a believer, especially after what I went through, that empowered women empower women, they don’t tear other women down. And that is something that, again, having been both on the giving and the receiving side of that, I know how important that is. And I love doing that. So find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook message me, follow me. If you’re curious about what I’m doing with Kelly, I can’t wait to share it with you. And I would just love to connect with you in any way.

Thank you so much, Laura. This has been a pleasure. I’m so glad to have had you on the show. I so appreciate it. And we’ll see you soon. CCN. Thank you.