Elyse Archer: (00:02)
Welcome as She Sells Radio today. I love this topic because we are talking all about the business of you and whether you’re an established entrepreneur or if launching your own business is still more in the dream phase. Our guest today is such a true expert in all things, personal branding and how you can successfully navigate not just launching your own business, but also building this really recognizable and powerful personal brand that just generates clients on demand for you. And so our guest is a powerhouse entrepreneur. She’s got a really cool backstory that she’s going to tell you about, but she left her career as a pharmacist to pursue her dream of photography. And along the way in that journey, she talks about falling in love with all things branding and now serves her clients as a personal brand strategist and expert. She’s also the host of the super popular second phase podcast, where she helps her listeners successfully launch the second phase of their career. And, uh, I just, I love this woman already. She’s also a wife, a mom of three, a woman of faith, and is passionate about serving others. So Dr. Robin Graham, welcome to she sells radio. We are so, so grateful to have you here today.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (01:15)
Thank you so very much for having me I’m honored and what a beautiful introduction. I just want to listen to that over and over. Thank you.

Elyse Archer: (01:23)
Your, your like mantra when you wake up. Sometimes I feel like I need to listen to podcasts intros in the morning to be like, okay, like I got some things going together, right? Like we get, we get in our heads. It’s not going well sometimes. So anyway, I’m so thrilled to have you here and I’d love if you could share more of your backstory. I mean, what a journey of going from what sounds like was the maybe like traditional quote unquote safe route of being a pharmacist and then leaving it to pursue your passion of photography. And I know that’s what led you to fall in love with, with personal branding. But tell us more about that backstory and what, what led you to really fall in love with this, this industry that you serve in

Dr. Robyn Graham: (02:05)
Now. So to give you just a little bit of idea of who I actually am. I grew up in a teeny, teeny, tiny little town called Nashville, Illinois, 3000 people in total. And I wanted nothing more than to get the heck out of there. I wanted a high power career. I just wanted to get out of there and be in the city. So I went to pharmacy school and I got to pharmacy school and I decided, you know what? I don’t want to just stop here. I want to get a doctorate. So I did, I studied, I did the thing. And then I worked in nontraditional ways in the pharmaceutical industry. For many years, I worked in managed care. I worked for pharmaceutical companies. I did medical education, writing, medical, writing, all these things, loved it, but it got to the point as my children were getting older and travel sports and all these things and the anxiety level between my husband’s travel schedule, traveling globally, 50% of the time, we had no family here in PA.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (02:58)
And it was just of getting to be a little too much for my liking. I wanted to be a mom and I wanted to focus on my children. I wasn’t willing to not have a career because my brain just needs that. But the key was we started as you see shifts and our lifestyle and it wasn’t working anymore. And my husband said to me, you know what? You light up when you do photography, why don’t you try it? Why don’t you just do something with it? And I thought, oh my gosh, how can I give all this up and do that? But I knew there was the need and my family had to come first. So I decided to give it a, try it. I had to squash a lot of fear, but I did it. I started a blog within six weeks. I had my first paying client and she was a branding client.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (03:40)
She was a musician. I did her photography and it lit me up. And I thought, this is what I’m meant to do. But as so many entrepreneurs experience, it was taking every job. I really wanted to make this as a success because this was not my forte. You know, my mother’s an artists, but I was always that stem kid and wanted something so much more high power. And so I took every job that came my way. I did all the things and I was happy, but yet working weekends and doing all these things was not serving me. It wasn’t serving my family. The boys were playing travel sports. I wanted to be in the throws of that, not working on the weekends. And as I was working more and more with headshot clients and branding clients, I discovered that people did not know how to start a business.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (04:26)
They did not know how to create a personal brand so that they could showcase who they are and really control the perception that other people had of them. And so, as I started working more and more with these clients and then educating them during their photo shoots and, you know, writing blog posts about it and different things, I thought this is where I need to be. I’m a strategic thinker. I need to help women discover who they are. Find that clarity and be able to build a brand or a business around their own personal brand, and then teach them how to communicate that, how to differentiate themselves and build that foundation that would give them long-term success, not give them a foundation where they’re spinning their wheels. They’re spinning money on this program and that program or this funnel and that funnel. That’s not getting them anywhere because they haven’t established who they actually are and who they want people to see them as. Um,

Elyse Archer: (05:26)
I love, and I want to, I want to let you keep going, but I love that you said that right there, because I think that is one of the biggest mistakes I see people making with their branding is they think it’s just a photo or they think it’s a logo. And it’s kind of like trying to build a house on such a flimsy foundation, right? Where there’s, if there’s not a strong foundation of who are you, what are you all about? And most importantly, who are the people you serve, then that’s, it’s only going to get you so far. So, so I, I love that. I love that. And one of the things that I want to, part of why I love this conversation is that I obviously this show is about sales, about women making more money about wealth, consciousness and business. But, um, you know, when I really think about what, to me, one of the biggest, most important factors of making more sales is whether you’re an entrepreneur or whether you’re even in corporate and you’re in sales is building a strong, personal brand and being known by the people who you want to serve.

Elyse Archer: (06:29)
And so for you, I know everybody defines it a little bit differently, but how do you personally define a personal brand and what it is your personal

Dr. Robyn Graham: (06:38)
Brand is what other people think, say and feel about you. And I like to break it out as you have a personal brand or brand, however you want to refer to it, but then you also have branding and then you also have brand identity. And you’re so right, at least so many people confuse what a brand is. They think it’s the logo. They think it’s pretty pictures. They think it’s a color palette and typography, but that is not what your brand is. Your brand is how other people perceive you. And your branding is how you control that perception, how you differentiate yourself, how you communicate, how your unique, how you’re going to solve the problems that they have and how you are the expert and authority in your space and how you can connect with them emotionally. That’s what your branding is. It’s all based on that communication around your brand, which is that perception you’re creating for other people to have a view and then your brand identity or all those other assets that you referenced before, your photos, your logo, your color palette, your typography, all of that stuff, those graphics that you create, you know,

Elyse Archer: (07:43)
Kansas.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (07:44)
Exactly. But your personal brand is actually that perception. Other people have a view,

Elyse Archer: (07:50)
Which is such a accordance shift because I think that’s, we don’t often think of that. And often we don’t know, like, how do we, so this would be one question I’d be curious to find out about is like, how do we know what other people think about us? Or does that even matter? Is it more about just deciding what you want other people to think about you and starting to convey that message strategically from there,

Dr. Robyn Graham: (08:13)
If you think about it? Um, well, first of all, to find out what they actually think, say, and feel about you, I think you’re going to have pretty, pretty good indicators, depending on how much people are engaging with you, what their interactions with you are and how many other people they’re talking about you with who who’s contacting you, who start following you, who’s, you know, who are they sending your way, that kind of thing. So you kind of get a feel for, okay, obviously there’s a positive vibe there because people are giving me that positive feedback. So if they’re saying positive feedback to me, they’re obviously going to save hot, positive feedback to other people because people don’t give compliments, um, arbitrarily, you know, those, those are held dear to people most of the time. Um, so I think that you can kind of gauge what people are feeling about you based on just that, that feedback that you’re receiving either from the digital world or when you’re networking, introductions, people make of you to someone else.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (09:12)
Um, collaboration opportunities is another way to look at it. You know, are people welcoming you in for collaborations? Are people referring other clients to you or telling other people about you? Are you seen as someone who is the go-to and are people coming to you? You know, just like the podcast, you know, you have a great podcast. Um, I will tell people about your podcast because I like not only the messaging that you’re putting out, but I like your personality and your personal, the personality and the emotions that you put into your, everything about what you’re doing. I can connect with that emotionally. So it’s really, if you feel an emotional connection with your, with your audience, I think that’s going to give you a pretty good clue as to, okay, you’re creating a good perception. Like you’re building something because you’re being authentic. You’re showing people who you are and you’re building that emotional connection through everything that you say and do either from a visual aspect with your content or a written aspect with your car. Yeah.

Elyse Archer: (10:11)
That’s such a good way to think about that. I love that. And I don’t know if I’ve really thought about it that way before, but what a great litmus test to, just to say, well, what’s coming my way and that’ll tell me either. Yes, like I’m building the brand I want, and I’m reaching people the way that I want or okay. It’s time to roll up my sleeves and do some work. So let’s say for someone that they’re, they feel like their personal brand, isn’t where they want it to be. Maybe the messaging’s not quite spot on. They’re not getting the type of opportunities they would like, what, what are some of the first steps that we can take to start to really control and direct the brand and, and create the brand that we want other people to think of us.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (10:54)
So, first thing is clarity. You have to have clarity because without clarity, we don’t have confidence. And if we don’t have confidence in ourselves, people aren’t going to have confidence in us. And without confidence, we can’t build trust. So we have to start with complete clarity in what it is that we do, what our, why is, who we serve, how we serve them, and then be able to communicate that through every single thing we say and do what I like to suggest is that if people are, have any confusion around what it is that they can provide the problem, they can solve, go back to making a list of your values, your visions, and your passions, and where those three things align. If you think of a Venn diagram where those three things align or crossover or mirror each other, that’s where your purpose can be found.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (11:44)
And you can look at it as that’s where your purpose might be, might be lying, or maybe that is where, what your niche is meant to be. However, you want to look at that purpose, niche, whatever they kind of go hand in hand, but really evaluate, you know, what are your values and what are your expertise? What are your passions that are driving you towards doing this, to becoming an entrepreneur? And you have to communicate that. And the one thing that I always like to fall back on is values. If you’re not aligned with your values, how can you determine who your ideal audience is and how can you truly serve them? So I like to always fall back on values and make sure that everything you’re putting out into the world, through your website, blog posts, social media posts, being a podcast, guest PR measures, whatever it is, make sure that everything you say and do is aligned with your values. Because if you want to attract your ideal audience, you want to attract people that are aligned with your values. You don’t want to work with someone that is not aligned with who you stand for and what you stand for.

Elyse Archer: (12:48)
I so love that you shared that. And one of the things I would love your perspective on Robin is how do we have confidence in standing for our values? So for example, you know, I personally part of my brand, or, you know, I come from a strong corporate background and that was much of my conditioning and, and how I made money for years. And as I’ve been an entrepreneur now for, I don’t know, six years, something like that, um, part of what I’ve really felt called to incorporate in my brand is more of the spiritual side of who I am. And I noticed as I did that, especially at the beginning, I felt nervous about I’m not going to get certain clients because of this. I’m gonna, people are gonna think I’m weird. Or like I said, I noticed that there were judgements cropping up on myself. And I’ve, I feel like I’ve worked through a lot of those, but, you know, I serve, and I know we have so many people listening who there’s part of themselves, that they’re afraid is going to be judged by somebody else, whether it’s their spiritual and they are afraid to bring that into their brand or their something they believe in that they’re, you know, they feel nervous about sharing publicly. Like how do we, how do we have confidence in bringing all of our selves to the table with our brand

Dr. Robyn Graham: (14:05)
Good question? And I think mindset work really comes into play because if we have to own who we are, and we have to be able to be content with who we are, the fact is that, especially in today’s society with the digital world, there’s so much negative energy and so much judgment that’s occurring. We’ve gone from this, I think this, this middle ground to two opposite ends of the spectrum. And it’s really hard to find yourself into not even find yourself, but to find your voice in that, in this scenario, I think because of the, the fear of judgment, but what I, what I like to think about is create from your heart create before you consume. And if you stay true to who you are and what your values are, you can talk about your faith. I think that, you know, I’m a Christian and I’m not embarrassed to say that.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (14:55)
And I will post things about my faith periodically. I may post a scripture, um, verse or, you know, different concepts, whatever. But the fact of the matter is that that’s just who I am at the core. And I shouldn’t be ashamed of that. Not everyone else’s Christian, but I’m not, I’m not creating content that is putting other people down for their beliefs. And I’m not judging people for their beliefs. I’m just saying, this is part of who I am. I don’t say that I only work with Christian entrepreneurs. I work with anybody who I can serve and who I can help. And I think at the end of the day, it’s that focusing back on, what do you feel called to do? Who do you feel called to serve and where do your values align with that? Because if you’re, you know, here’s a, here’s a great example.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (15:49)
Um, I don’t know if you know, Cathy Heller, she’s the host of don’t keep your day job. I love her and she’s a Jewish woman and she talks about her Jewish faith all the time. And that’s been a huge component of her, her journey and how she became an entrepreneur. And, you know, I’m a Christian, she’s a Jewish person and, but it doesn’t matter. I follow her and I love her. She follows me and we have conversations in our DNS once in a blue moon. So, you know, it’s really about just being who you are authentically, and you don’t have to shove your beliefs and your values down other people’s throats. But I think if you come from a place of integrity and honesty and authenticity, and really from that place of following your calling and trying to serve, you’re going to build a personal brand that does emotionally connect with people. And, you know, you talk so much about sales, but you can almost sell without selling whenever you’re your true self. And you build those connections authentically, oh, I love that

Elyse Archer: (16:51)
Sell without. So that’s like the dream for everybody, right? Sell without selling, which is true, which is part of the power of building a brand. For sure. You know, I’m curious because you clearly, you’ve worked with so many amazing top notch clients over the years, but what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see people making with their personal brand?

Dr. Robyn Graham: (17:11)
Oh, so, you know, this is so funny because I think reels is a really good indicator of this. You have all these people trying to mimic these tick-tock stars and this, that, and the other. And that is the, that is the biggest problem that I see with people in their personal grants. They are not being true to themselves. You know, they’re, they’re creating content based on what other people, what they think other people want to see from them. And that does not build that emotional connection. If we are not truly authentic and posting things and sharing content based on who we are and that the expertise and the authority that we have in our space. And we’re just doing things to please other people that gives a sense of inauthenticity and we can’t have people, or we won’t have people, how should I say this?

Dr. Robyn Graham: (18:02)
People will not have confidence in us if they don’t see who we really are. And therefore they won’t trust us. And as you know, at least it’s trust, determined buying practices and we can’t sell without trust and people trusting us. So that is the biggest thing that I see is people go down that road of imp imposter syndrome, being people pleasers, and then all of that inauthenticity shows up surfaces. And then people question who they are, because we’re not meant to be somebody else we’re not meant to replicate other people’s content. We’re not meant to have the same number of likes and people put too much emphasis on that. It’s really truly about building those relationships that are going to not only fuel us, but that are going to push us forward and move the needle on our business.

Elyse Archer: (18:50)
Gosh, amen to everything you just said, which goes back to what you said before, about which I love was create and then consume. And so, you know, it’s, it’s funny as you, as you talk there, Robin, you reminded me of a conversation. I had yesterday with one of my private coaching clients and she was sharing that for her. She saw so many issues in the health coaching space and she saw so many other health coaches doing reels and doing tick toxin for her. Like that feels super draining. Now she’s also, she’s a media personality. She can just show up and like talk into a mic all day long and is great at that, which a lot of people aren’t, but she was making herself wrong for feeling like she, wasn’t doing great at making tick talks and reels. And, and I could relate to that too.

Elyse Archer: (19:36)
Cause I tried to go down that route for a while, but it, it, that particular type of media has always just felt challenging for me. And so here’s what I want to hear from you because my feedback to her was there’s a lot of different ways to be successful in a lot of different ways to build your brand and doing tick talks and reels. And that doesn’t feel, although certainly you can be successful with that, but if that feels draining to you, there’s another way that’s better. And so what would you say, like, would you agree with, she was very relieved to think about there’s a lot of different ways you can generate followers and leads, but what, what would you say to someone who’s maybe feeling that way?

Dr. Robyn Graham: (20:14)
I agree 100%. And I look at social media as an opportunity to build relationships. And I don’t look at social media as a place I have to be because it’s a place that I just want to use it as a stepping stone to build relationships. It’s not my end all be all in terms of sales, getting clients or anything else, because at any given point in time, it could go away. Any of those platforms could disappear. I mean, if you think back to 2020, and there were days when the platforms went down and people were panicked, if you have a blog and I’m still, I, I be old fashioned, but I am a firm believer in the power of blogging and SEO. So if you have a blog, you own that platform and you can reach your audience through blogging and then your email list, you own your email list.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (20:59)
And so for me having those sources, I like to write. So I think for each individual find what serves you best. If you are comfortable with a mic in your hand or, you know, doing videos, that’s great. But if that’s not where your comfort zone is, you’re not going to be able to truly communicate your personality and how incredible you are if you’re nervous and intimidated. So you can do mindset work and work through those. And then, and then create those, use those platforms for those types of things. But in the interim, use your email list or use static posting or, you know, use, you know, if you like live video better than reels, do that. If you like Instagram TV and creating videos on a separate platform and then uploading them do that, I say, you have to do what you feel comfortable with. That really aligns with you as a person. Or you’re not going to come off in a way that shows clarity, shows confidence and can build trust,

Elyse Archer: (21:57)
Uh, which is why I love what you shared there. Because I think what feels a lot of the women I serve none, not all, but many of them, they do feel drained by social media and they feel, it feels exhausting. And it feels like this is something I’ve quote unquote got to do. So I love two key things I’m taking away from what you just said. So one is that it’s a stepping stone. It’s a means to an end, which is the relationship, which is so true. So I think that kind of helps put it, put it all in perspective. And then to that, the most important thing is alignment with the content you’re creating at any time. That’s really the, you know, the theme of this show and what we’re wanting to accomplish, what she sells is that you don’t have to fit into somebody else’s box to have success. That when we try to do that, we give away our power. And instead it’s looking at what feels good to me, what feels aligned to me? What are the natural gifts and talents that I’ve been given by God that I can use through this platform in a way that feels good. So I think you, if anybody needed permission to do it their way, I think you just gave a massive whopping dose of permission, which is great because it’s, it’s very freeing to know we can, it can be successful. Yeah,

Dr. Robyn Graham: (23:05)
Go ahead. Absolutely. And it’s about being consistent and if you don’t feel comfortable on those platforms, you’re not going to show up consistently for your audience. So it’s really important to determine like what you’re comfortable with that will allow you to show up consistently so that people know that you’re there for them. You’re putting out content, you’re helping them, you’re serving them, but you’re doing it in the way that is best aligned with you. And when you adhere to the ways that are best aligned with you, you have a better chance of attracting your ideal audience as well. Because if you’re doing things that aren’t aligned with your values, you’re going to attract people that you’re not really meant to work with. And what’s going to happen, your going to get frustrated and overwhelmed and burnt out, and they’re not going to be happy with you. And then your referral sources go down and all of those other things start to spiral out of control. So that’s where that, that alignment and really, you know, back to the whole concept of a personal brand, it’s really, you have control over what other people think, say, and feel about you. So take advantage of those opportunities to communicate what makes you unique, how you can differentiate yourself in that sea of online noise to really showcase who you are as a human being and how you can serve others. Yeah.

Elyse Archer: (24:21)
That’s so good. That’s so good. I want to ask, um, I want to ask one other question before we start to, to wrap up here is, you know, for it, let’s say that there’s a woman or a man list. We have a mixed audience. Um, so let’s say that somebody is listening and they are, they’re ready to pivot. Like they are, they are maybe incorporated. They’ve been doing something for awhile. That’s just not feeling right. You know, maybe they had a bunch of ahas in 2020, and now they’re like, okay, I’m ready to, I’m ready to really align with, with what I’m feeling called to do here. How did we do that successfully? There’s so many moving parts. Um, you know, you did it successfully. What were some of the keys that you think helped you, that you would encourage somebody else to implement if they want to pivot as well?

Dr. Robyn Graham: (25:05)
So the number one thing is keep your head down. Don’t let shiny object syndrome distract you. Because if you go on any social media platform, you’re going to see ads for funnels. You’re going to see other entrepreneurs talking about what they did, sit down and outline the track that you want to take. I say, start with a website because if you can build, have a website built that is going to be efficient. Have search engine optimization, have Google analytics on it. Then you have, you have a home, you have a foundation for your business that you can send everyone to. You have a link that you can send put in every other place, every other platform you’re going to be on, where people can come there to find out everything about you, everything about the services that you provide, how they can work with you, a place to contact you, but that becomes that core of your business.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (25:57)
I, I just really believe that. I believe that, you know, you can start on Facebook and build an audience on Facebook, but if you are walking down the street and you are going to make a decision as to which storefront you go into, it could be one that is, it just looks a little run down. Like maybe the quality isn’t quite there, it seems kind of dirty. And then you have the other one that’s beautiful and well-kept, and you just feel more comfortable in going in the one that’s well-kept it looks more professional. It’s going to attract you to it. Yeah. The same thing with a business. If you have a choice between someone who has their business running from a Facebook page or their business running from a website that is aesthetically pleasing, and really showcases who you are as a human being that and builds that emotional connection with your audience, what are you going to choose? You’re going to choose that person that has the foundation that shows they’re professional and they’re ready to serve you. Yeah, that’s so good.

Elyse Archer: (26:51)
Yeah, it’s really, and that’s part of, what’s powerful about today and about the power of building your brand is you are in control. You know, it’s not that it doesn’t require consistency, like you said, and, and really having that strong foundation, but you’re in control of the image that you perceive in. People are making split second decisions about who they’re going to hire and not. And so really taking ownership. And to the point you made before, like controlling the flow of traffic too, I think, you know, like you said, if the algorithm changes suddenly on your social media platform, you’ve got all your eggs in that basket. That’s a, that’s not a great position to be in. So taking ownership, driving people to your website, building your email list. Yeah. Like foundational really, really good.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (27:35)
Yeah. I think I would say as far as building that foundation goes, you cannot go wrong. If you hire a coach, if you just have a little bit of guidance so that you’re not getting distracted and you have an accountability partner and you have someone that is helping you with those critical decisions that you need to make someone who has been right where you are and has already done it. So you have that expertise to tap into. And that guidance. So many of my clients have, they’ve really just gotten inundated and they fallen into these traps of just starting with Facebook ads or starting with a funnel when they don’t even have the tools established for their business as a whole. And they don’t have a website, they don’t have a place to send people to, and they don’t even have an offer yet. And so you can get so distracted and it just breaks my heart because people are investing money. They’re investing time and it’s not getting them to where they need to be because they haven’t built the foundation. So those, that would be my advice is always start with a website and have a, have a true core for your business and then work with someone who has already experienced everything that you’re going to be experiencing. Yeah.

Elyse Archer: (28:43)
Super powerful, super powerful. So Robin, if someone wants to listen to your podcast, connect with you further, like see, ya, see a powerful personal brand in action. Please tell them where they can go connect

Dr. Robyn Graham: (28:55)
With you. Still. I have, my website is the best place. I have a resource page where you can access everything. My podcast is the second pace podcast, but if you go to the Robin graham.com, it’s Robyn with a Y. If you go to the Robin graham.com forward slash resources, everything is there. You can ask access all my downloads. I have a personal branding quiz that is fun to take, just to see where you’re at. Are you a novice or are you an expert? And you know, where are you at in your business? And then a lot of other free resources that you can use to start building that foundation for your business. That’s

Elyse Archer: (29:29)
Amazing. That’s so amazing. This is probably one of the most important topics and important things that we can be focusing on as entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs, really for like, we all need to be focused on building the personal brand that we desire, um, and we desire to create. And so Robin, this has been powerful and I love the, just the wisdom in what you’re sharing and how grounded it is, and also how real it is. So thank you for, thank you for making the leap and taking that step out in faith on your own, because now you get to inspire so many other people, you know, myself included, um, to do the same. And so thank you so much for your wisdom and your time here today.

Dr. Robyn Graham: (30:12)
Well, thank you. You’re a gem. I really have so much respect for you and everything you’re putting out into the world so much positive energy. Thank you.

Elyse Archer: (30:21)
Whew. That is, that is what I aim to do. So I, uh, I so appreciate this. And so definitely, you know, go connect with Robin, check out her podcast, check out the resources page and, um, and take it one step at a time and have fun with it along the way as well. So thank you as always for tuning in to, she sells radio so grateful for you, and I will see you next week with another amazing episode. Bye for now.