Elyse Archer (00:02):

So our podcast today is for every woman who’s ever been told she’s too loud, too much or too ambitious. And my guest today is a powerhouse woman who I just adore and you’re going to adore her too. And I’ve had the pleasure of working with her at a global marketing company. She’s been a client and I was honored to recently be on her podcast as well. So we will, uh, we can link that episode in the show notes, but defending lady Macbeth. And part of what I love about this woman is that she’s such a blend of everything that we believe in here at she sells and she’s this corporate bad-ass and the VP of learning and development for sales at the USA today, networks, local IQ. And she’s also the founder of her own coaching company, where she serves super high achieving lot of gen X women who want to up-level their lives in a really powerful way. So Tracy Oswald welcome to she sells radio. I’m so excited to have you. Thank you. You’re

Tracy Oswald (01:00):

Making me a little teary with that intro. So,

Elyse Archer (01:04):

Gosh, well, I have to tell you, you know, as I was thinking about today and just pouring over your LinkedIn, cause you put out so much good content is like on your podcast. And on LinkedIn, I literally had moments where it was like what you share about your heart and the way that you serve women was giving me chills and was also like making me want to cry because I could relate so much to how you so openly and powerfully share some of your own challenges, which you now help women with. And it was like, oh, I, I felt it in my core. So I am so excited to have this conversation and you know, I want to kick off actually. So you’ve got this wonderful quote on your LinkedIn and it says everything is not as it seems and fortune favors the bold. And I just love that. I love both parts of that. What does that, I’m guessing that’s a very important quote to you. So what does that mean to you?

Tracy Oswald (01:59):

Yeah, so, so thank you for opening with this Elise, because this has been the last 10 years of my life have completely shifted and evolved in ways I could never have predicted, um, if it were not for this one balmy August evening in 2012, when I was working in New York city and living on long island, and this quote is from the immersive theater production sleep no more, which is based in New York city, it’s in Chelsea. Um, and the show I’ll, I’ll give, I’ll give you those super highlight some, you know, high-level of the show. And then I can talk about why this quote is so important. Um, the show is immersive theater is sort of like a play that you play. And, um, the premise of the show is based loosely on Macbeth with, um, storylines of also the Peasley witch trials of 1696, the story of king James and queen and of Scotland.

Tracy Oswald (03:00):

Um, a little bit of Hitchcock’s Rebecca, um, and, um, lots of new our themes. It’s, uh, over a hundred rooms, um, it’s five floors and you get to actually go find the action and find the characters. And what’s so interesting aside beside the set design, which is incredible, the attention to detail, um, they spared no expense, but you it’s like a choose your own adventure. Um, the first time I went and I I’ve talked about this on the podcast, I’ve talked about this numerous time on link who was talking to on LinkedIn. Um, the first time I went, I was at a place in my life where I really thought that efforting and hard work was the way to be successful. Right. And if I just put my blinders on, put my head down, put my nose to the grindstone that I would be rewarded.

Tracy Oswald (03:56):

And the scary and insidious part was that I was sort of rewarded for that. Right? We do create things when we’re very focused and very task conscious, except that I had this experience inside sleep no more. I got out of the elevator that they put you in. And that quote is directly from the elevator operator. Well, the elevator operator, James tells everyone who gets in the elevator is that everything is not as it seems and fortune favors the bold and what he, what he means and what, what I, what I learned over time that he meant was that what we see in life simply has the face that it wants to put on. Whether it’s an inanimate object, whether it’s a person, whether it’s a, it’s a situation or circumstance, and it’s up to us if we want to dig deeper. And I learned over time and I’ve been back to sleep in more 49 times because I use it as my playground. I’ve learned over time that the more curious I got, the more I was rewarded, the more I stopped trying to make things mean what I wanted them to mean, the bigger the world got to me and it, it completely changed my life.

Elyse Archer (05:19):

Wow. Wow. I love what you said there about making things mean what you want them to mean. Right. And opening sounds like opening up to what else is possible and kind of stepping out of ego. And I would, I would love if you could, so tell us a little bit more about, so at that point in your life, you were, I would imagine by what most people would say from the outside, looking in like very successful in this corporate role. Right. And like you said, being rewarded for putting in more action and more effort, but what was going on for you inside

Tracy Oswald (05:51):

That time? I love this question. So yeah, I was working in Manhattan. Um, took the train in from long island every day. I mean, I dressed to the nines because in Manhattan, even back in 2012, you dressed right? Like it was suits and dresses and very, very fashionable. Um, I let a, a really big sales team, um, and had a lot of fun. However, I would say that my understanding of human nature and my ability to be vulnerable enough to create the kind of relationships that really matter in life was limited by everything that I was taught up until then you got to get, you just got to get, can I curse on this podcast? You can

Elyse Archer (06:35):

I call you a bad?

Tracy Oswald (06:37):

You gotta get done. Like at any cost, I had to make the number because I was the sales leader and whatever I had to do to make that happen was what I had to do. And it really no one ever, no one ever taught us, especially in my generation gen X. And I was on the very, like, I’m on the boomer end of gen X, right? So I’ll be 55 next year. No one ever taught us that feelings matter, feeling your own feelings matter, being present and holding space for someone else’s feelings while they feel them. We, we just didn’t have that understanding vocabulary or any kind of training. So it was very much like, all right, pull up your socks, get it done. I don’t care. Like we have to make this number. And that’s where I was. And I was very, I made a lot of money. Um, I had this really cool office. Right. You know, my office faced the big Macy’s, you know, and oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. In New York city and anyone would have said, wow, she’s like, she is about us. She’s really sexy.

Elyse Archer (07:38):

I remember really looking up to you. I was just real quick. Cause I worked, I was on the sales team then like it’s Tracy Oswald. Like I don’t, I don’t know that we ever, I don’t know when we met, if we met in person there, but I remember like you were, your name really carried a lot of weight and still, still does it, that company. But yeah, I remember that was like the, at least the impression I had. So

Tracy Oswald (07:59):

Because I did not feel that way inside whatsoever. I always felt like I was running to catch up. I was like, things were never over. I always had to keep going. And I was terrified of people. Like I was terrified. I couldn’t have like normal, just social conversations. If it was not about work. I had no friends at home. Cause I spent most of my life, like an hour and a half on the train going an hour and a half on the train coming home. Like most of my life was at work and I had like friends at work and you were friendly. But I would say I did not have meaningful relationships. And I would say looking back that the re the meaningful relationships that I did have, like with my husband and my daughter is in close family, obviously we’re on a shadow of what they are now. So

Elyse Archer (08:43):

You said something before, that was really, you said I was terrified of you. So what was it that you were terrified of people? Was it the connection, like opening up and being vulnerable to really create that connection? Or was it something

Tracy Oswald (08:53):

Else? So it’s interesting. I, a big part of it was, um, my insecurities about myself. Like, what were they going to think about me if I really let all my guards down and showed them the real me that I was, I was really scared to just simply show up as a human. Um, I was afraid of, I was afraid that, you know, cells, especially at that time and, and the, the track I took to, to like Uplevel and sales, I came up through the yellow pages, very male dominated company. And we just didn’t talk about feelings. Like that was not a thing. And so I didn’t know how I literally didn’t know how. And so I didn’t think it was important. And I also didn’t think it was important to feel my feelings. And I was terrified to go deep with someone because I didn’t know how to, I didn’t have the internal tools to navigate. If someone got upset or to navigate, if someone got sad, like, what do I do? I don’t know. All I know how to do, I thought was talk about the results and the numbers and the strategies and tactics. So I felt so ill equipped to deal with anyone else’s emotions, let alone mine. That I would, I was, I was terrified to just go there.

Elyse Archer (10:05):

Yeah. Oh my, well, I can totally relate. I, I spent many years of my life, um, there as well, and I want to read, so I wanna, I wanna kind of go deeper into your journey, but I want to read something that you shared on and again, like go check out Tracy’s LinkedIn. Um, it’s so it’s just, it’s so good. And you can go so deep. And so you had you talk about there’s something in here. You say, let me find where here we go. We were taught that if we worked hard, put in lots of hours, got the accolades promotions and raises, it would make us successful and happy what they didn’t teach us. However, it was the Deere price we would pay. When we eventually realized that in our quest, for the ever elusive brass weight, brass ring, our relentless hard work had not only made us miss our lives.

Elyse Archer (10:51):

It taught us to put our fate in someone else’s hands to outsource our own happiness and to doubt the very nature of who we are as powerful women. And that just like, especially the part where you talk about we missed our lives. Oh my gosh. I can relate to so much of that. That’s how I spent most of my twenties. And even up until early thirties, definitely showing up like that. And so, so tell us about, so this moment in August of 2012, when you went to this show and everything started to change for you, so T your cause you’ve, you’ve transformed so much since then. So tell us about how things started to transform for you in that model.

Tracy Oswald (11:30):

Yeah. So in the moment, um, you are to, to join the show and actually go into the, what they call them, McKittrick hotel, you’re taken up, you’re given a mask that you have to wear the entire time. The experience is three hours and you cannot talk. So it doesn’t matter if you came with someone, you can’t talk to them. So they really encourage you to go your own way and choose your adventure and experience things. And so I got out on the elevator, uh, and I had my feet planted on the ground. My eyes were getting adjusted to the light cause it’s pretty dim inside. And I had this existential realization that even though I had complete and total permission from the creators of this like magical Wonderland to go explore and do whatever I want. And there were really very little rules about where you could go and what you could do and things that you could find.

Tracy Oswald (12:23):

I was frozen because I didn’t know how to do that. I was terrified to call her outside the lines. I was afraid to actually experience life. And, and in that moment, like sleep, no more represented to me, what’s possible in the world and what’s available what was available to me in real life. And I was afraid to even take one step because I was afraid I was going to do it wrong. Wow. Hmm. Wow. And so how did things start to shift for you then death? So inside sleep no more that night. And you know, it was funny the first time I went after it was over, I was like, I don’t know what just happened to me, but I have to go do this again. So I went in many subsequent, like nights, the first couple, you know, the first couple of months. But, but what happens in sleep no more is that because you have this mask on and the performance do not.

Tracy Oswald (13:20):

And oftentimes there are only about 30 characters in the experience. So oftentimes you’re, you know, two feet away from lady Macduff or one of the witches or hecka T or the Porter. And they’re having this intense moment. There’s a lot of like interpretive dancing that goes on, but very, very, very intense emotional moments. You also have the opportunity. Sometimes you get pulled in to these, what would they call one-on-one experiences where the actor or the character will whisper to you? Or have you go on a quest or tell you a story? And there, there are so, so intimate. And what I found was because I had this mask on fully covering my face, I felt like some kind of weird protection. And I felt like I could let my guard down and experience their intense emotion. Cause it’s very emotional. They’re like the actors emoting and you’re, you can’t help, but feel it.

Tracy Oswald (14:22):

And I somehow learn to be present with some very uncomfortable emotions, whether it was joy, happiness, sadness, despair, fear, whatever it was. It was like, it started to be a playground for me to be present with emotion and be protected. Cause I had a mess. They didn’t know who I was. And little by little, at least I started to practice it in real because I had this playground where it was safe. I was able to then translate that into real life in small increments at the beginning. Yeah. But in the last 10 years over and over and over and I kept going back and I kept trying different things. And by the way, having an incorrect, like it’s, I feel like it’s like a world that if I could take every person in the world to the show, that’s my goal because that’s how much it impacted my life. That’s how freaking fun it is. It’s like so much fun, but little, little by little, in the last 10 years, I am now able to write like when you wrote what I w when you just read out loud what I wrote, like I have vague, it wasn’t that long ago. It felt to me like, wow, that’s profound. I, that, that was good. Like in the moment I’m just, it’s just coming out and I’m not filtering. And 10 years ago, I would never, I would never have been able to do that.

Elyse Archer (15:43):

Oh gosh. And I want to talk about that too, because that there’s, oh my gosh, there’s so much good in what you just shared and the filter and like the mask. Right. Which so many of us were like, I wore it for years and years and years, I’m still learning to get more and more comfortable, like taking off, you know, all of the layers. Cause I think we all have, you know, there’s always a deeper level we can go to, but as you’ve, as you’ve taken off, you know, some of the layers of the mask and gotten more comfortable with emotion, whether it’s yours or whether it’s somebody else’s and holding space, like you’ve continued to grow in your career and your way, like even higher than you were before. And so it seems like there’s almost this different way of doing things that you’ve discovered over the past 10 years. And I know one of the core tenants that you talk about, which I’d love to go into is this idea of like, you don’t have to keep efforting your way to the top and then it can be easier. So I’d love if you can share, what have you learned about that over the past 10 years? Because that to me is so, so profound.

Tracy Oswald (16:47):

So this is such a juicy question and I’m still, I’m still learning more and more about this, but here it is in a nutshell, um, I being vulnerable and, and being able to take the layers of masks and all the chains we put ourselves in allowed me to start speaking up. And I noticed that the more I spoke up in corporate settings and my job, my role, like the more people listened and the more people listen, the more confidence it gave me. And then it really started to listen. And then I really started to speak up and promotions and all of that happened. And you know, I, it, it’s still amazing and I’m still very much growing in my company. But when I think about, um, F the efforting part, I started realizing that because I was being so much more present in, in the, in a moment with another human on the end of a video phone call or a video call or an email at work, because I focused my energy on the actual presence and experience that, that we were both having around what, the project or the task, whatever it was.

Tracy Oswald (17:59):

Um, they got so much more out of it. I got so much more out of it. It furthered what we were doing. Cause I was so present and not worrying about the next meeting, not thinking about the previous meeting, not worrying, what people were thinking about me. Things started to happen quicker without me working on them, things resources would show up. Um, people would do this extra stuff and, and it was almost like this weird, magical, like, like placed where, when I’m in and fully and wholly present, there’s not a, and I’ve talked about this on LinkedIn and I’m not ashamed. I don’t work like many, many, many hours like that. You know, people think, oh, Tracy, I’m, I’m so sorry to bother you. I know you’re super busy. I’m like, no, no, no, no, I’m not super busy. Like I’m here for you. Let’s have this conversation. Now, the more I did that, the less like things that appeared on my to-do list because the real work, and this is what’s so important. And I want everyone to really understand the real work is not in the things you check off in your little notebook or planner or whatever the real work is. How can you get comfortable with being wholly present for another human at work or at home? That’s where the real progress and that’s where the real magic happens. Wow.

Elyse Archer (19:17):

Oh my gosh. And why D why do you think that speeds things up? I think it’s so interesting because it’s almost counterintuitive right? In our culture. It’s like, I’m going to get more done by just adding more things on and moving faster. And then I remember that was how I thought for years. And I would always be, like you said, like distracted thinking about the next thing when I was with someone and it always felt so hard, but I thought that was the only way to do it. So why does it it’s it’s counter to what we would think, right. When we slowed down, it actually speeds things up. But like, talk about, I just want you to talk more about that. Cause I think

Tracy Oswald (19:49):

So. So w so here, here’s an example. When, when you’re in a really relaxed state, when you are feeling comfortable, confident, um, not, not stressed. And you’re confronted with, let’s say like, oh my gosh, there’s this big problem. Or there’s this big challenge that we have to fix Tracy? Oh my God, can you hop on a call? The way I can show up? Now, when there are big problems or big things to solve, because I am in a very relaxed state things, my brain isn’t working from a flight or fight response, right. And when our brains work and you know this, and you talk about this all the time, when your brain is working from a flight or fight response, you can not access the, the brain power that helps you see what’s possible. Your brain is only trying to save you from dying, like, or like, like running away and no real, um, I want to say decisions, but no real, uh, profound realizations are going to happen when you’re in that mode.

Tracy Oswald (21:03):

So the more I learned to it was almost like I had to retrain myself. And I I’m so curious if you had this experience too. It’s I had to retrain myself not to worry about if someone was calling me. Oh my God, what do they want? Like, oh, my boss called me. Oh my gosh. Like, you know, is something really bad happening, right. Yeah. I think it’s important. I think it’s important to talk about in the context of this conversation, about being wholly present and speeding things up when our brain is always going to, I’ve got problems in the past, I’ve got problems in the future. And I’m also worried about what everyone else in the world is thinking about me. Like 7 billion are actively [inaudible] apparently they have time for both of us. So I used to really think this, like everyone is having meetings about me, like, and talking about how much I suck and how horrible.

Tracy Oswald (21:58):

Right. And I’m sure everyone listening can relate to that. And so the learning in what the beautiful thing that happened was as a result of me being more present and not in flight or fight response, I went to, I didn’t go to that. Oh my God, the world is judging me as much because I was able to access a higher level of thinking. I was able to look at the world and because I just had three beautiful conversations in a row with three people at work that I was fully present for my mind was like, oh, okay, this is amazing. And people aren’t talking like, you’re, you’re just in a different mindset. The other thing that happens is that because, because people are not used to the majority of people are not used to someone really listening and hearing them and being so present for their emotions and caring for them in a work environment, in a corporate environment, they, people tend to want to reciprocate in the ways they know how now I’m not doing this for, for them to reciprocate.

Tracy Oswald (23:08):

Like, I’m not doing this for them to do things for me. I’m doing this because it feels good to me. But if I, if I, now, if I, I could literally message anyone and say, listen, I need help with something. And because of how present I have been for them, they’re now like, yeah, Hey, what do you all drop everything? What do you need? Like cool. Let’s, um, I’m excited to work on this with you because they want that feeling. They got, when they’re with a human who’s fully present, excited about stuff, that’s also really important and, and makes, allows them to operate from the place that more is possible than what everyone else in their lives is telling them. It’s like, it’s like,

Elyse Archer (23:57):

Yeah, I love that. I love that. That was one of the biggest shifts that happened for me when I started really studying how everything we do is for the emotional payoff of it. Like every single thing we do. And we think it’s not, you know, I, it did that for so long. I thought I want this money. Cause I want the money. It was like, no, I want the money. Cause I want the feeling of freedom, having them, you know, expansion, having options, you know, you want the relationship for the feeling of love security. So I think I love what you’re talking about here because having been in also very corporate environments, very male dominated environments for years, it’s like the emotional piece just isn’t talked about, but it’s actually, it’s actually everything. It’s everything. And it can be your super power as well. And I want to ask you too, Tracy.

Elyse Archer (24:46):

So your podcast defending lady Macbeth, I first of all, incredible, incredible podcast. So go subscribe to Tracy’s podcast. Um, if you’re enjoying this conversation, it’s like, uh, it’s, it’s phenomenal. But what you say is it’s for every woman who’s ever been told she’s too loud, too much or too ambitious. And I’m curious about your experience there. Cause I know you said before that you started practicing, speaking up more and you got rewarded for it, right. More promotions, but was there a time when you felt like you were told that, that you were too much too loud, too ambitious? And what was that time for you? Yeah.

Tracy Oswald (25:23):

Yeah. I mean, I feel like, um, especially because I came up through very male dominated industries and companies, um, I would say all throughout my thirties and like a lot of my forties, uh, oftentimes I was the, not only the only woman in the room, like the only woman, like, you know, on the section of that floor and what I, what I had to learn and tell me if you can relate to this. And I think a lot of women, especially if they’re more my age than your age, it’s, you don’t even realize you’re doing it, but you’re calculating the degree to which you can push an issue because of your gender. And because of the perception about women by the men in the room, like you change your language, you soften your approach. Right. I was always viewed as you know, um, very, very powerful, but any time I expressed emotion back before it was safe for me to do. And I think this is what reinforced, um, me hiding my emotions for so long. Anytime I, any emotion did come out, it was like, oh, you know, like it was very, um, and I can’t remember all the comments, but oh yeah, because you’re a woman, you know?

Tracy Oswald (26:45):

Exactly. Oh, you’re so emotional. Like Y you know, be more rational, be more, you know, so it was reinforced over and over in corporate business settings that my bigness, cause I have a very big personality, um, was too much for them. And I should just like, just go with the flow, don’t rock the boat. This is where we’re going. And the majority of us feel the same way because we’re all largely white male. Right? Um, you, you need to conform to how we think. And, and I thought at that time that I had to, because I needed money, I needed a job and you know, all the reasons. So, so it was pervasive throughout my whole life and what, and it was very scary for me to start to speak out, um, and to show my emotion and meetings because it, it did. And still sometimes do, does make people uncomfortable with how vulnerable and how I will truth tell in a meeting with higher ups. I just say the thing. And, and sometimes there’s saucy language and you know what, at least I don’t care. I don’t care because people that I’m not doing it for the higher ups, I’m doing it for everyone else on the meeting to show everyone, you can have a voice. And you can say things that people that are above you might disagree with, might recoil at and might judge you for, and it’s going to be okay, it’s fine. I’m still here.

Elyse Archer (28:16):

Well, and that’s something I was going to ask you about too, is just how your champion, cause I feel like with your role now, and you’re leading, you know, I don’t hundreds, thousands, I don’t know of how many people are, you know, in the company that are in some way shape or form you’re leading, but just the ripple effect of you showing up in that way. And are you seeing, are you seeing that ripple effect where other people are also feeling more empowered to express themselves and to incorporate more? Okay,

Tracy Oswald (28:41):

Absolutely. Yeah. My, my, my direct team for sure. Um, I’ve been with them for about a year and the change that I’ve seen because I’ve simply allowed them to be the beautiful, wonderful, complex humans that they are. Uh, it’s just been incredible. And, and the deep bonds that we’ve created, um, individually, and as a team, incredible, I have regularly. And that the sales team that my team serves is like 800 people. And it’s very, very large. And I have mostly women, which makes total sense women, um, sales managers and sales leaders, women sales reps, you know, will message me like, Hey, I’m like going through this thing, can you hop on a call or I need some advice on LinkedIn, can you help me? Or, you know, I love what you said. I’d really love to talk to you. And I say yes, every single time, because they are what matters. Right. And it’s my responsibility as someone who has come through the other side and experienced enough, uh, uh, in a bad way, um, that I’ve come out the other side to be a role model for the rest that I feel like it’s my responsibility. And I want to show up for all of those women. Yeah.

Elyse Archer (29:59):

Oh my gosh. That’s so powerful. That’s so powerful. I have, I have two questions for you. And then I want you to tell everyone where they can, um, where they can connect with you. So the first is for a woman who’s 100% relating to everything that you’re saying and is like, oh my gosh, yes. Like I’ve been told I’m too much to this too, that maybe she’s afraid to speak up. Maybe she’s afraid to really like, be fully herself because of how it’s going to make other people feel. What would be your number one piece of advice to her

Tracy Oswald (30:30):

Start trying to speak out in small bites, don’t try to, you know, upload a 20 minute vulnerable video all at plugins because that’s your brain. Can’t like, you just can’t do it. So if you simply start posting some more vulnerable content where whatever your social media channel is of choice start testing, right? The world is like this great big place where you can basically do whatever you want. There are consequences to everything we do good and bad, but there are very few rules, except like don’t kill people, be a nice person. And, and, and you have to pay taxes probably, right? Like

Elyse Archer (31:11):

The three biggies,

Tracy Oswald (31:13):

Right? Like, so w you know, there are far less rules than you think there are. And still start, try, try. If you, if you regularly don’t speak out in meetings, like write down one thing that you want to say, like maybe a sentence, right. And, and just say that sentence and just see what happens. Give, I think we don’t give people a chance to support us. We automatically think everyone, everyone is going to negatively react. You will be surprised about how many people say I was thinking the same thing. I’m so glad you said it.

Elyse Archer (31:46):

And usually more than not, right. It’s like, oh my gosh, thank goodness. Somebody said that. Totally. So, yeah, I absolutely love it. It’s like baby steps, but also kind of thinking about your world as that immersive theater experience, which is such a fun, it’s such a fun way to think about it, hopefully. And so the other question I want to ask you, so in this journey that you’ve had over the past 10 years, you know, I want to go back to what you said about we, we spend our lives like pushing and efforting our way to the top only to miss our lives. What have you, what have you learned about what actually matters? I know it’s kind of a big question, but what have you,

Tracy Oswald (32:24):

Yeah. What is this moment? This moment, this moment, and this moment, w we, we think that we, we think that time is something outside of us. And we think we, you know, we there’s billion dollar on how to get control of your time and the five things you should do to have a millionaire morning. And, and the fact of the matter is that all we ever have is this moment. And I want to offer that time is not outside us. We are time. Ooh,

Elyse Archer (32:58):

Wow. Yes. Say, say a little more about that, because that is, I agree. That’s so true, but go a little bit deeper.

Tracy Oswald (33:05):

Yeah. So, so, uh, you know, we can have a whole nother podcast

Elyse Archer (33:12):

[inaudible],

Tracy Oswald (33:13):

But back back before everyone had clue. So in the middle ages, back before everyone had clocks back, when people had to farm and, and built the cows and do all of that stuff there, they did not have a sense of, um, oh, I have, um, I don’t have a lot of time to get this done because the debt, they were the time they, they had to milk the cows. So they had just simply milk the cows. They had to clean out the hearth for the fire. They had to, you know, make the bread and back then they didn’t. And you can look at this in all of the, um, the books and the history from that, from back then, which I studied a lot for my podcast. They, um, they did time was not something outside of themselves. And it’s, it wasn’t until like the industrial revolution where people had to start showing up to places at a particular time, like a factory or a printing press that we started to believe as humans. That time was something that, um, existed, um, outside of us that we had to either conform to or control in some way. And, and what I want to offer is when you, when you strip away all of the things that we have to do, all of the to-do lists that we have, I got to upload the podcast. I got it. You know, if, if you were to basically sit in a room for eight hours or however many hours, you are evidence of time passing. It’s not what you do. It’s simply you being,

Elyse Archer (34:55):

That’s so powerful. That is so beyond powerful. And I think about how often, and I apologize, my husband is printing something in the office right now. [inaudible] I love it. Oh my gosh, it’s real life. Right. But if I want to, I want to just thank you for that. Because the, um, because I think about how often our lives are ruled by something that doesn’t even really exist except as something we’ve made up. And to me, one of the biggest takeaways I’m taking from this whole conversation today is to question everything and to think for yourself, whether it’s about time, whether it’s about how to achieve the success you want, and to go deeper into all of it and make your own decisions about how you’re going to live and how life is going to be. So, Tracy, this is, this is one of my favorite interviews.

Elyse Archer (35:52):

I’m so grateful for you being here and just for the journey you’ve been willing to go on, because I know it hasn’t, it hasn’t always been easy. Like when we really, it’s not, and it’s, it’s, it’s rewarding, but it’s not easy. Right? And so you face things that most people wouldn’t face and you’ve become just, just absolutely inspirational, powerful woman in the process that I’m so grateful for for your time and for how you shared here today. So tell everyone, please, how can they connect with you on LinkedIn? How can they find out about your podcast? Because I know they’re going to want to, I know they’re going to connect further.

Tracy Oswald (36:31):

I, um, please connect with me on LinkedIn. That is where I hang out the most. I also have an Instagram, but LinkedIn is where I put like all of my content. So you can DM me if you just want to talk, find out more about what I do happy to have. So happy to talk to you. Uh, my podcast is called defending lady Macbeth, and that is wherever you listen to podcasts. We are there. So,

Elyse Archer (36:54):

Yeah, Tracy, thank you so much for your time today. Um, everyone go connect with Tracy on LinkedIn. She puts out phenomenal content, phenomenal videos, subscribe to her podcast and, um, really like take that energy of this conversation with you into the rest of the day, the rest of the week of really questioning everything and learning to think for yourself and knowing there’s other better ways to get to where you want to go. Then feeling like you have to effort and push and be someone other than who you are. So as always, thank you so much for tuning in to she sells radio. I’m so grateful just for each and every one of you. Tracy, I’m super grateful for you and we will see everyone next week on our next episode. Bye for now.