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How to Leverage AI to Grow Your Sales Business with Richard Harris and John Barrows

I have a really special, unique interview for you today where I’m bringing back two of my most popular past guests, Richard Harris and John Barrows, to talk about something we’ve never talked about on the podcast before – AI and sales. 

If you’re a client or a longtime listener, you know that my personal passions are really around helping you master your inner mental game for business and sales success, so that’s what we really talk about a lot here on the show. 

With that said, if you listened to episode 300 you heard me talk about how committed I am to just being of service wherever I’m being led right now and following the nudges, and I have been bombarded lately with questions and opportunities around AI in sales, so I followed the nudge and wanted to bring you two real experts on the topic today.

I know both John and Richard through the Salesforce Sales Influencers program, and I reached out to both of them directly to ask that they come on and speak about this topic because they are both really on the forefront of helping their clients keep up with the rapidly evolving business and sales climate we’re in today, and learning how to implement AI in a powerful way to grow their value in the marketplace, as well as revenue. 


Show Notes:

[3:35] – John and Richard share a bit about themselves and their background.

[5:56] – This episode was recorded in May of 2023 but it is a rapidly evolving technology.

[7:30] – AI will help you write things to appeal to every type of client and can be used in every part of the funnel.

[8:42] – The biggest areas of supporting the sales process right now are research, writing, and follow-up.

[10:13] – To John, it matters to him that he has the final input into his writing. AI doesn’t know your voice or brand. But he lets AI do a lot of the heavy lifting.

[12:27] – AI takes information from the entire internet which is important to remember that some things may not be accurate.

[13:58] – Unfortunately, AI is making leadership lazy.

[15:04] – We are always going to crave human interaction, but the upcoming generation is growing up with it and feeling a real connection.

[18:12] – John references a recent study in generational differences in people wanting to work with sales reps and the regret they had without one.

[20:40] – The experience of Covid unintentionally shifted perspective on what is necessary to be in-person.

[21:40] – What can you do that a computer can’t?

[22:53] – Richard uses LinkedIn tools to exemplify some of the benefits to leverage his time.

[24:22] – Elyse admits that she has had some hesitation using automation tools to create content.

[26:31] – We don’t like spam because it’s irrelevant, but John thinks that in the near future, our emails will be exactly tailored to each of us.

[29:10] – What are some good points about AI? John and Richard are using some AI tools in their businesses now as entrepreneurs.

[31:23] – The impact on efficiency is the key.

[33:54] – The quality of the prompt and input given to AI tools like ChatGPT, determines the quality of the results.

[35:41] – Richard describes some of the things he has had ChatGPT help him with in business including writing and reviewing contracts.

[38:30] – Richard has an idea on the show to help with his email campaigns.

[41:21] – There are a lot of platforms that will soon have AI integrated tools, like Microsoft programs and Google Suite programs.

[42:57] – Richard lists some tools and companies to keep an eye on as they develop even more.

[43:52] – Is it really AI or is it aggregating a bunch of false information?

[45:43] – We have overengineered the sales process. Learn the fundamentals to keep your business acumen human.

[48:12] – So much of what Richard and John teach are life skills, not just sales skills.


Connect with Richard and John:

Links and Resources:

Instagram  |  LinkedIn  |  YouTube

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Welcome to She Sells Radio I have a very special unique interview for you today


where I’m bringing back two of my most popular past guests Richard Harris and


John Barrows to talk about something that we’ve actually never talked about on the podcast before which is AI and


sales and if you are either a client of mine or a long-term listener you


probably know that my personal passions are really more around helping you master the inner game of sales and


business so that’s what we talk about a lot here on the show but with that said if you listen into episode 300 you heard


me talk about how just committed I am right now to following the nudges being


of service wherever I feel I can be of service and wherever I’m LED and lately I’ve just been bombarded with so many


questions and opportunities around AI specifically in sales and so I followed that nudge and I wanted to bring you two


real experts on that topic today so in a moment I’m gonna let Richard and John


introduce themselves to you directly but if you want their full Back stories and some really really great sales interview


content you can listen to episode 157 for my full interview with John Barrows and then episode 193 for my full


interview with Richard Harris and I know both of these guys through the Salesforce sales influencers program I


reached out to both of them directly to ask that they come on and speak about this topic because they’re both really


I’ve watched them both be on the Forefront of helping their clients keep up with such a rapidly evolving business


and sales climate like we’re in today and teaching their clients how to implement AI in really powerful ways to


both grow their value in the marketplace as well as their revenue so John Richard welcome to cheese cells radio welcome


back to She Sells Radio to both of you I should say yeah thanks for having us back thank you very much and John you


know we’ve both done hosted about 400 episodes of our podcast I don’t think I’ve ever heard a better natural


introduction natural I was gonna I was just gonna say like without reading a script or anything that was like that was like so good I’m so jealous oh my


gosh what’s our what’s our uh parameters around language John and I love to get into debates and we might you know get a


little aggressive and we want to be mindful to your audience we’ll put the what’s the E we’ll just put the E next


to this episode I don’t know it’s fine you all just you you do you here on the show it’s all good that’s why I’m I’m


really excited for this um and I’m going to kind of step back I’m going to ask some questions but I really want you


guys to have the floor here um just because like I said like this is something that I’ve been getting a lot


of questions on it’s not something I’ve been super focused on with my clients and I’ve just watched you two like really really Pioneer a lot of things do


a lot of thought leadership in this space and so I’m excited to learn from both of you today too so why don’t we


start with just super quick like who you are what you’re all about before we dive in in case somebody hasn’t listened to


the past episodes so John I see you first on my screen just have you like introduce yourself who you are which


you’re all about if somebody’s not familiar and then Richard will turn it over to you sure uh John Barrows’ CEO


Silva or by CEO of JB Sales just relaunched and um yeah I would do sales


training I work with some of the cool clients like Salesforce LinkedIn box trading all their reps on tactical stuff


to try to stay ahead uh execute today and also prepare him for what’s coming tomorrow which is is rapidly arriving


um Richard Harris from the Harris Consulting Group and Surf and sales um


go to market strategy similar to John and I teach reps how to earn the right to ask questions which questions to ask


and when um John and I do overlap people often wonder but we’re very very good friends


like you know last year we had a nice Warrior Celtics bet and I won and this


year we won’t um for those listening we I will say this


that we’re not even Frenemies we’re friends and you know like it’s okay to be


competitive with your friends absolutely I think that’s where a lot of this conversation will come into you’ll


still feel that so I’m excited yeah it was like an intuitive nudge get them both on the show together so I’m excited


to see uh to see what’ll come out of this and um and to get both of your perspectives on things so one quick


thing I will say because for you as a listener you can obviously hear both of uh both John and Richard are very


heavily involved with working with sales teams sales companies and I know we have both sales professionals and


entrepreneurs who listen to this show so I just want to Tee It Up that regardless of whether you’re a sales leader a sales


professional and entrepreneur you want to be really thinking about this and listening in on this because you’re


going to get like I already know I’ve got my paper pen out here I know you’re going to get ideas for things you can be


doing even if you’re an entrepreneur to implement this in your business and things you should be thinking about so with that gosh let’s get let’s get into


it like let let’s just start off with what are some of the biggest ways right now so as we record this this is May


2023 so one I think it’s important to maybe put a time stamp on that because I know this will be shifting and changing


as we go a lot of times I do Evergreen episodes but I do want to note like this is obviously a very evolving topic as we


speak but may 2023 what are some of the biggest ways right now and biggest use


cases that you’re seeing for AI that you’re working on implementing with your clients um and I I don’t want to like be like


use you know I don’t want a referee who starts first I’ll start here with Richard John jumping and then I want to be like a natural dialogue kind of from


there so um yeah Richard you want to share what you’ve seen going on I mean I think it’s


it’s been slowly progressing I think um I think to some extent it was a


little bit even before chat GPT like I think the efficiency piece came and that


wasn’t AI um per se but that’s where I think it happened


you know that’s where it started right um with just the sales enablement platforms and then of course natural


progression is how do we make it smarter right how do we make it better and work faster and so right now


what I see and hear the most is around you know prospecting activities right


um those kind of things they’re you know the that’s a piece there was and still


is this understanding and analyzing um the psychology of an individual right


like there’s so many tools out there now that will go tell us uh there’s a lease thing cut does Richard think how does John think and how to talk to them like


that was sort of version one now with AI it will actually do a much better job of helping me write something in a way that


at least will want to interpret it most likely or John and that’s that’s the big


piece and you can use that at all parts of the funnel right now we hear about it at prospecting but I would still want to


do that you know in a first sales call Post first sales call meeting notes uh if I’m being introduced to a new person


um if running a demo or if they’re going to go into a you know a


POC or something like that I but still use those tools now because I could


better write those kinds of things and um you know you can also start to use it now how do I negotiate with procurement


like you can find different ways to use it in a different place and I’m just starting to see


tools I only know of one so far that can actually do call coaching so if you’ve


got a remote sales team right and you can’t coach all the time this tool will do that and that to me is super


impressive but um you know so I’ll pause there and let John jump in yeah yeah I


mean all those I mean I would probably summarize it right now with research writing and follow-up uh are probably


the the three biggest use cases that I would see one is research right you know where we used to have to go to


somebody’s website look at their social profile look at all these different tools to find some relevant reasons to


reach out to them now with tools like chat GPT and maybe not chat CPT because it is time stamped for two I think 2021


but there’s a lot of them that are plugging in uh tools like chat TPT into


another AI model and unleashing it on the ability to do research right really good research on accounts


um so as far as preparation you know you can you could even take for instance somebody’s 10K or annual report court


and you know copy paste it into chat EPT and say hey summarize this for me with the key takeaways and so now I can use


that to you know be more educated with my Outreach when it comes to prospecting or as I prepare for a meeting so I think


that’s one piece of it the other piece is writing as Richard said you know it it’s real good it’s it’s good it’s not


great but I think I’m glad that it’s not great because I want AI to to do the


majority of the heavy lifting for me but I want to be the last mile as a sales rep before it goes out the door so and


that’s whether that’s an email or a podcast I’m sorry or a blog or a


LinkedIn post it’s you can still tell when the AI bot is writing these things Sir John what’s an example there because


I I you know what how do you know that it’s better to have the human piece right I


guess so it does actually I’ll take that back it doesn’t matter to me it it in


general I think it matters if you are your brand and you you have a voice out


there and the reason I say that is because when I write I’ve done more than a few examples on LinkedIn where I’ve


posted a pure AI right and it’s obvious that it’s not me you know because people


know my voice people know my brand it’s close and I think it’ll get absolutely get better right by by the time it


ingests all the information of me you know I could take every podcast and I could take every video I’ve ever done and put it into the system and I you


know I haven’t spent the time to do that yet but I’m pretty convinced it’ll start to write stuff that sounds really you


know very close to me I mean I just posted this last week on Friday just for some fun which was the AI you know AI


version of me right it’s a it’s an avatar that talks like me looks like kind of looks like me and we did that


all with free tools and so if you take the next deep and you say okay well if we paid for a few tools and we waited a


month or two I mean you’re going to get a full-on AI version of John Barrows


that looks exactly like me and sounds like me and the question is is where is the content going to come from right and


I think this is something garyvee Gary vaynerchuk brought up recently what I thought was fascinating which this is


because I always wondered like blockchain and Bitcoin and all that stuff like okay like who gives a right like just because somebody knows


where it’s coming from like I could still have my image of an MF nft and who’s going to call the blockchain


police on somebody right but what he said was now with original artists they


can put their content on the blockchain to genuinely prove that it is theirs and


therefore anybody taking information chat GPT included from it is going to


have to have some type of accountability so I think that’s where we’re going with this um but we’re not there yet but man like


I quite frankly think I’m the reason I posted that on Friday is because I it’s gonna be really interesting where


this goes as far as trust is concerned because right now you put the thing if I’m scared about a little bit is people


are putting information into chatpt and then they’re taking the information out of it and treating it as gospel right they’re like okay that’s the answer it’s


like whoa whoa whoa whoa did you Source check this did you find out where this comes from and I mean at least half


the half the internet’s total crap right it’s it’s total fake news and so it’s pulling information that is telling


people and then all of a sudden they’re just regurgitating it so again we’ve missed the the foundational piece of


Education of a lot of these reps like where us I think we’ve been in the game for a long time you know the three of us


there’s some context to it so there’s there’s a foundation of understanding how to use these tools and to make us


better whereas reps who are coming right in or individuals who are coming right into this AI world they’re that’s where


they’re starting they’re not starting with the foundation they’re not starting with the fundamentals they’re starting with the AI tool and I guess if you use


that to be curious to learn to then execute then great but I don’t think most people are I think most people are


just using it to create off operational efficiencies to be better than they would be right because let’s face it


like AI right now is better than probably 85 of the Reps I come in contact with


um I mean are you seeing the same yeah I think so too um


and so what’s interesting I was listening to John and I thought you know the two roles if I were thinking about going into sales in some way the two


things I would probably start to look at more is um one uh Revenue operations because you


still need someone to come and that’s like if you think about what John’s saying as a sales rep if I’m using it and aggregating all this data and


information from message I need to take an Ops perspective of like go back and like let me just double check to make


sure that sounds right like that’s the first thing the other is um sales leadership because the biggest


challenge I see with AI is that it makes leaders lazy already we you know C levels and and


Founders particularly you know in this SAS startup world that a lot of us live in I don’t I don’t know about you Elyse you know they think that sales people


are TurnKey they think that anybody can manage a sales person and they can’t and even when they learn that lesson it


takes them a long time I mean there’s a reason that VPS of sales only last 16 to 18 months it’s because their leadership


doesn’t understand um what it takes and so I think the AI is going to help


at a certain level but still that managing of a human right is still has


to be a skill learned and I think that’s nobody’s going to want to be completely managed by a machine you know that’s


lonely and isolated and so I think yes but uh by the way it’s


not yes but it’s yes and but I don’t agree don’t just say no all right no I


guess well I think let me put it this way yes I agree with you for the for the for the near term I questioned that in


the long term and the reason I say that is because we’re all at an age where none of us grew up with AI native so we


are always going to Crave that human interaction but my daughter’s 12 okay on


Snapchat there’s an AI function on Snapchat that is her AI friend and what


happens is and thank God it doesn’t prompt her automatically she prompts it so but if she prompts it at the end of


the day saying hey how you doing it’ll re it’ll come back it’s like great how was your day and then she engages and


engages and engages and the more she engages the more it learns from her because it’s on Snapchat it learns her what she likes and what she doesn’t like


and all these different things and it becomes an extremely empathy and extremely friendly person to talk to


now if you marry some AI Bots to that in


the sense of like uh video right where it’s just an AI Avatar who’s talking to her as opposed to a chat


now let’s think about her at school and I’m not saying this is my daughter my daughter’s you know pretty well adjusted


she doesn’t get into this stuff you know I’ve held her but in general say you’re a kid and you’re at school and you pick you get picked on all the time you get


you know called you know whatever you get called and you get picked on all the time and then you go home and you start engaging with this AI bot who’s super


friendly super nice and super empathetic and has a has a face to it


um as we fast forward this out how much are people going to really want to interact with people that’s the


question I have right now it’s it’s I think we are always going to Crave interaction but I I’m curious about the


10 to 16 year olds right now who 10 to 18 year olds right now who are trying to figure out this world in this such a


up spot right and getting picked on all over the place getting harassed on social media and getting probably not


good feedback from parents or friends or colleagues or work or any of that stuff and all of a sudden an AI bot was super


nice and super knowledgeable can sit there with a bunch of answers right because my fear on on you know the


reason I posted that on Friday was who would you rather talk to John or super John because I am one person and I


have my own opinions and you could take all of my content you’ve ever seen and put it into a bot and then you could ask


me not just that you can take every single piece of content from Sandler Richard Harris uh winning by you know


every sales Guru on the planet and pump it through me and it’ll sound like I’m


giving you the advice so the question yeah I’m just scared now like now we’re all gonna live


in caves like Jesus am I wrong about that like I I just I I


want you to be wrong about it how’s that for an answer I really hope I’m wrong about it but I I’m just watching what’s


happening in front of us right now and I’m noticed I’m seeing how people engage and they want to engage more and more


with robots I mean there’s there’s a study that came out with Gartner that said the client wants if you J if you um


General out or advertise average out Millennials gen Z and Boomers


uh 43 percent want a rep free experience 43 of clients in B2B want a rep free


experience and that doesn’t include gen Z now the bet the the positive side of


that the you know the benefit or I guess the good news is is that of those 43


that wanted in a rep free and experience they had a 23 higher regret rate so they


regretted the decision 23 more when they did not involve a sales rep so that to


me tells me there’s there’s a chance right we still are a vital part of the sales process it’s just we got to change


what that means we got to change what value looks like we got to figure out what we can do that a computer can’t and we have to engage at a human level


because until computers buy from computers we’re no we you know there’s still a chance but once once computers start


buying from computers then it’s a totally different story uh but I think there’s still a chance it’s just we got to keep evolving faster than ever now


because I think the days of the no value interaction um from a client rep standpoint I think


those days are over uh if you’re not adding value in a conversation right now as a rep then there’s no chance I’m


going to pay attention to you if you’re going to just drone through your bank questions you know going through your stupid PowerPoint presentation and then


throw a proposal at me like there’s I don’t I see Zero benefit and erupt doing those things


yeah anything you want to yeah I was just gonna say like the the part that that


that I’m connecting with with what John’s saying and I’ve been saying for a while and you know


plug I’m working on a book is is you know bringing that Humanity back into sales right the the 43 percent


probably believe that because of all the bad experiences right


um now there is some value to look like if I go to Best Buy I go do my research


before I show up and then I go ask questions at the end right that’s what I’m doing um in some cases right now I you know


you know it also becomes interesting too the the piece that’s accelerating this


around this not wanting a buyer you know not wanting a salesperson I believe is is coming out of the pandemic


right everything shifted to zoom and you know good old-fashioned you know inside


sales right people ask me all the time I don’t have to ask you John like bring my team on inside sales I’m like there’s no


difference right you know there’s no difference um and so now the buyer their experience


has changed there’s no such thing as a buyer starting their experience has changed and so they’re more comfortable having these conversations of 50 100 200


300 Grand decisions and they’re realizing oh my God I don’t have to travel I don’t have to do this I don’t


have to do that office space so that actually I think unintentionally has helped accelerate


this AI piece on the back end from an experience perspective so it’s really kind of a couple of things that are happening into that Gartner study and in


my belief system I don’t know how I’m sure Gartner has more data around it than I do you know


I can go um you guys talk I’ll go check out Bard or chat


but I mean I think that’s the that’s the thing to pay attention to right is is you know what is value look like


these days from a sales rep what does it means exactly like I I asked my client I


I asked reps all the time like you gotta ask yourself the question right now what can you do that a computer can


because if you can’t really answer that question you you you’re in trouble you


know what I mean and and if we look at you know on you know research and writing emails and sending sequences I


mean there’s let’s put it this way the Reps who are and I don’t want to name names as far as you know tools are


concerned but the Reps were just using the standard uh email tools to send out


emails that are templated based on what marketing is telling them to do and effectively acting like robots there’s


like tools out there with AI right now that can do it a thousand times better do I agree with the automated approach


do I agree with the mass emails and the mass LinkedIn connections absolutely not but does an AI bot do it far better than


any sales rep ever would hell yeah they do hell yeah they do so


and I take a different approach I don’t mind that stuff I don’t I don’t mind like if I can do it


in a way that seems genuine and human I don’t mind scaling now what I don’t like


is spray and pray right that’s a very different approach right and so you know


for example the one I’ll talk I’ll talk about LinkedIn tools because I use them all the time yeah I can have a LinkedIn


tool go in pull up someone’s profile look at it and you know so if people like who


looked at me and then I can also a day later make you like it make it make it go and like some post just click on that


button for it so I’m doing that now the irony of that is sometimes it clicks on


someone’s post it’s like six months ago well here’s the good news if someone only posted six months ago because it’s


the most recent post do I care no what do I care and if nobody’s turned around and said how dare


you to use a bot and they did I’d be like yeah I did yeah you know and I got your attention see it worked right


so so well I don’t have a problem with some of that automation stuff um if it helps me get better at the job


and I know that it can help people like again so John you two Elyse


we all have a brand right we have a LinkedIn piece and we do that from the goodness of our heart we do we know to


make more deposits than withdrawals I can’t remember who created that phrase and so when we’re putting out content I


don’t mind using something like that because the long game is sure maybe I’ll get some business out of it sure however


the content I’m putting out is meant to be helpful for people so for me it’s worth it if I’m a straight up


traditional sales rep then if the to what John said some context needs to come into play


that’s it’s such a fine line and it’s kind of it’s interesting to hear both perspectives because I’ve had some


resistance around using any sort of automation tools there to like automate my content or put stuff out as me and


sometimes I’m like well gosh is this just the way it’s gonna have to be if you’re going to be successful at some


point I don’t know yeah let me ask you this would you ever have someone guest or a


guest or ghost write a blog post for you and then you edit it and post it good question I have one of I I do I’d


say 95 of my own writing right now I do have a really awesome but but think about it and how much time does it take


you to write a post oh totally no it takes I mean like I’m with you it takes a while so what’s the difference between


having a machine ghost ride it and I edit it and you know a person goes right


and edit it and in either of those cases I’ve just created more time in my day to go do something right right so again


it’s this context piece and being mindful to not spray and pray like in


that sales perspective I also I mean going back to your point Richard I agree with you as far as like I I don’t mind


the automation stuff and I actually think it’s going to ultimately be a good thing for us but not a good thing for


sales reps uh especially front end of the pipeline sales reps and the reason I say that is because right now if you


think of spam right the reason that none of us like spam is because it’s usually completely irrelevant right it’s this


crap that I have no interest in whatsoever yup but why do I like Instagram


well I like Instagram because I’ve trained Instagram’s algorithm because I’ve thumbs up thumbs down their ads I


you know I like certain things I don’t like certain things so now almost every ad that I get from Instagram is something I kind of want I’m like oh


that’s I never thought of that before that’s pretty cool yeah definitely right so think about all the information


that’s out there about most of us right we got our LinkedIn profile we got our social networks we got all this public


information about us who’s to say and there’s already a bot that you know stuff that does this uh that they can’t


go out and find hyper relevance hyper you know personalized stuff and make a


connection to the value proposition of a business based on those things and so I think actually maybe in a year our


inboxes are going to be full but our inboxes are going to be full with that we actually think is good and


relevant and something I might want and quite frankly do I care on whether or not a human sent that to me and the


answer to that one’s absolutely not I could give a of the email the cold call that left a voicemail that got me


to think about something the LinkedIn share like based on something else like I don’t care if that’s a human I care if


it’s a human once I want to talk to somebody that’s the part I care about but to get my attention and introduce a


new product service solution to me I could get I could give a if it’s a sales rep or not which is why I think it’s scary for sales reps specifically


on the front end of the pipeline I agree on the front end I think the I’m going to jump in here at least yeah go ahead


the podcast episode right I mean just sit back I’m gonna sit back and let you guys go yeah


this is the part and I don’t think people talk about it people don’t know how to maybe John maybe the three of us


should do something if I’m a sales rep if I’m an SDR the one thing and I bet we all


might agree on this is how would I use AI right now to build my brand I would


absolutely have it helping write some posts as an SDR and start posting one LinkedIn I would help but do those


things post about the topics I’m an SDR and I don’t know anything about the industry I’m going to have it write some


posts about the industry and I guess yes I’m going to audit it and those things but that to me is where AI can really


help sales people and over time the thing I do like about AI is as a


whole is that our EQ goes up we learn things we figure things out we can write things we can we can learn to be more


empathetic because we can get to better knowledge to understand so that would be the one thing I would tell


people they need to do is they should start working on their brand because I think I did a I mean I don’t have my


business without my brand right and um I got lucky when I got started and I had someone like John


there to kick me in the ass to say just go do this Richard you can do it however I still had to figure out some of the


other stuff along the way so the brand would be the big thing that it ties in with the question I was going to ask


both of you because I think it’s interesting to see how this conversation unfolds and to me it feels like there’s there’s kind of these two different


categories I want to touch on today through the rest of our conversation one is okay what are the highlights we


talked a little bit of like bad news of where we see it potentially going but what are the highlights and use cases


for both SDR someone in sales as well as I want to hear for both of you as entrepreneurs how are you using it


um and then two I think John it was to your point of like what does value look like now and how do we Richard like with


the book that you’re writing humanizing the process so I think let’s talk let’s talk good part of AI let’s talk a bit


like especially for I think it would be interesting to hear for both of you as entrepreneurs how you’re using it right


now in your business Richard you mentioned some already with LinkedIn but let’s talk that and then we’ll come back


to the human element from there so who wants to who wants to share some of


the tools the tips the things that you’re seeing it do well for you right now in business


yeah I mean I’ll jump in I think it’s I I think it’s a lot about the efficiency stuff right it’s research it’s curiosity


um one of the things that you know Richard said he’s writing a book I was you know still I’m still going to write a book but I was sitting on it for a


long time and I’ll give you an example and I you know when I had the chapter layouts if I wanted it and one of them


was you know start first one is uh the history of sales like a brief history of sales just so people have context


because you know our friend Todd Capone always jokes around about how like literally what’s happening right now


happened back in 1914 whether you believe it or not right there was a whole thing of oh is the you know


newspaper gonna uh you know replace the sales rep or something like that it’s like holy right so there’s


Innovation all over the place um and I didn’t know from a you know from a history standpoint I know a


little bit about sales history but I don’t know a ton and so all I did was type into Chachi BT hey write a story


you know write a chapter of a book called This is sales coming from John Barrows you know LinkedIn profile here


and talk about the history sales starting at 1918 and going up to present day and hitting these milestones and it


wrote something and I was like holy I’m like this is stuff like this is fascinating like I never knew that and


it forced me to go be curious to go learn more about it and to make sure it was validated and everything else so I think anything like a you know a starter


pack if you will like if you if you’re trying to get started doing anything I think AI is the place I would start even


as as stupid as this sounds people like you know well how can I use AI to be more effective in my business well guess


who you should ask that question to dead serious say hey I am a sales rep


and this is my role and this is the company I work for I’m trying to figure out how to use chat GPT to be effective


how should I use it and it will tell you it will straight up tell you and so I think those you know writing emails and


getting it almost there before it goes out the doors is great you know doing research on accounts I think is


fantastic you know and then and and then just having fun with it I mean my recommendation for everybody right now


is just start playing around with it it doesn’t matter what you’re doing just understand how prompts work because


that’s going to be the key it’s not going to be who writes well it’s it’s whoever comes up with the better prompts and tells the machine what to do because


the more specific you are with what you’re telling it to do the better answers you get and so that’s why I think just go in there and start asking


it to write a song for you create a poem you know uh do a love letter your wife or husband or significant other you know


what I mean don’t do that one [Laughter]


a South Park episode where uh one of the kids is you know all of a sudden you


know Cartman’s all pissed off because one of these kids is getting all the girls to be attracted to him and Carmen’s like what the hell and he’s


like you know because he’s chatting back and forth texting her and he’s like just watch he’s like every time she texts me I copy paste that and put it into chat


GPT and say give me a response it gives him a response he cuts and pastes and sends her and he sounds like the most


romantic understanding and he’s you know a kid so that’s I mean yes I agree with


you you don’t want to do that if you want to be authentic with your wife with your significant other but you know there’s again as long as it doesn’t Val


violate your values and as long as it’s close to your voice and as long as you take a look at it before it goes out the door I mean why not let it do 99 of work


before you can fire off some stuff there so gosh this episode is going down in history for multiple reasons one


including I think the first South Park mentioned ever on the she sells radio episode so


yeah so yeah I gotta ask a favor because I


can’t tell if it’s John’s long-windedness or my ADHD I can’t remember the original question I know we’re going to talk about the humanity


so we’re gonna so let me prompt you Richard I have one follow-up for John and I’m going to prompt you again all


the questions so well high level we’re talking like right now what are the use cases that


you’re seeing for AI in your business how are you using it but before super quick I want to just circle back to


something John said so John can you give an example if someone has never used chat GPT or Bard in that way like


and you talked about the importance of the prompts which I understand is really critical right like the quality of the prompt or the question will determine


the quality of the answer if I wanted it to compose a really great email to you


like what would be the prompt that I would put in specifically just so someone can hear what that would sound like yeah I mean I think you have to


have the inputs right so you have to have the person and the company that you want to reach out to and so you would


say write an email to LinkedIn Pro you know Richard Harris and then I would put his


LinkedIn profile in there um from the Harris Consulting Group put their


website in there about how I John Barrows can help support uh Richard’s


growth initiatives based on some either social posts he’s just sent or you know


some news about his business and see what it comes up with interesting you know that’s not a perfect one but it gives you the sense


like you say basically go look at this person and their company and then write an email as if it was coming from me


about how we can best support their growth efforts see what it comes up with and then it’ll go out there and it’ll


research and we’ll find some stuff now again be cautious because again chat gbt is a time stamp thing that only goes up


to 2021 so it’s only going to be pulling that’s why it’s not great that’s why there’s some of these other additional


tools that you have to use to get it open to the current Internet if you will


um but those are the type of things I would write in or you know you could take your messaging that you’ve already


created and say hey could you write them an email right if you have some elevator pitches or whatever they are could you


write an email to this Persona about based on some of their priorities in


today’s in today’s market and how our solution can help


awesome um I had a follow-up I lost it I mean come back Richard go ahead tell us you


already shared LinkedIn some of the ways that you’re using it yeah I’ve actually had it um write a contract for me I have


heard it yeah I’ve heard about that I’ve had it review a contract and I’ve said you know if my concern or these things


are out getting paid or whatever you know what should I look for in this contract I’m also you know like I’m not


hiring a lawyer I’m sure if I were you know if I’d have a lawyer and if and if it’s a if it’s a big enough deal I’ll


have a lawyer look at it right like God I know John has a much bigger deal so I would assume he’s got uh well he has


someone on staff actually I know that that does some of the stuff for him so those are the interesting places that I


think it’s really helpful um I did uh I did use it to write a song


and to Britney Spears like and I said oops I missed it again and I had it right along like I missed my goal like I


missed my whatever legal oops I missed it again and uh and then our buddy Scott Lee’s


had some had to do something too so uh for a song I can’t remember maybe it was a Dylan tune I’m not sure but uh


those are the places I see it I see it um yeah I used I’ve always been a fan of


whenever I would negotiate with someone from a different anywhere really in the south in New York or you know Boston or


in Germany or Italy or whatever I will I would go to I would go to Google and say negotiating


with someone in Boston right and it would tell me how you know someone has written that article


now I can get an aggregation of that information right from different places and different sources so I’m not


spending my time clicking on 12 links right the little magic Blue Links so that’s a way that I I like to use it in


a healthy way um and so I you know I’m always trying to look at what what am I doing that I hate


about the job and then I’ll ask chat GPT or I use Bard a little bit more


um is you know what suggestions do you have to make this faster


um and so that to me is is an important piece um


and and then I’ve asked for people I’m gonna go like how should I talk to you know like John said but a little bit you


know how should I negotiate with this person versus you know how should I approach them so those those are the


places in my business I’ve been using it um and I have used it to write some blog posts I have used it to get me started


on some things and then I still have to go spend 20 minutes you know 10 minutes editing


it um but part of that it could go faster if I wasn’t such a perfectionist trying to outsmart the machine I know


plenty of people who take it and be like okay three minutes scan yep change that that’s it I think with that I’ve done


that too I don’t have a problem with it I actually think that’s a really interesting takeaway that I have not used it for


before like you know what I should do I just thought of this so I use active campaigns right I wonder it would be


cool which is my newsletter if I went to if I could put a chat GPT


and say what is consistently making my highest open rates my highest open rates


and have it tell me you know how would you I don’t know I need an integration


because it needs some sort of integration okay different emails and check the data right you’re gonna need some kind of integration


I just thought about that now like that to me would be really helpful and I could see a lot of people using it to do


something like that so totally which ties back in and I want this to probably be like from here we’ll talk more about


the humanity piece of this but final question just off of what you both said is that it’s really interesting to think


about so the tools that Bard chat GPT need to integrate with you know John you


talked about like chat GPT needs something to make it relevant past 2021 Richard the example you just brought up


there need to be something to integrate with activecampaign are you all comfortable mentioning like some of the other tools you’re using or things


you’re seeing for integration like what else again just think about someone who’s like a novice here like what other


tools do you need to make this successful yeah I don’t know the technical I don’t


know the technical details I just know that there’s a lot of different tools that I’m looking at whether the ones that I’ve I I personally have yet to


integrate uh like a chat TBT with said tool to be able to do this but there’s a lot of tools out there that are free or


whatever but Bard is a good one right because Bard is it that is the the internet right so that is leveraging


openai but it’s also pointing at the the entirety of the internet which is why it’s probably better than chat GPT in a


lot of ways but the Integrations I think that’s where what you look for is you look for the different segments that you


can automate that you can use this tool and you use the free stuff that’s out there and then if you can find that


efficiency if you can find that real world use case it’s going to save you a bunch of time then you go look for the


integration component to it whether it’s an integration or a separate excuse me separate tool that does the same thing


but has the integration already built in because all these all these big companies specifically are integrating


It Anyways like micros I actually think Microsoft’s gonna come out on top way out on top on this one


um and and you know they’re the sleeper that nobody’s talking about because I saw their release of open AI into office


  1. and you’re now in your PowerPoint presentation and you can just tell it


hey put together a PowerPoint presentation for my upcoming meet meeting with the board of directors or


whatever and it’ll do it for you um Excel hey go look in this Excel sheet mix and you know create a create a chart


that shows this that and the other thing and it’ll do it and it’s all going to be native in the email client right because


Office 365 that’s where people live that’s where I know I live I haven’t moved you know I don’t have Gmail Gmail’s doing the same thing though


Gmail is going to embed it into their Gmail system and so if you think of that like I I I worry for a lot of the


platforms Point Solutions all that stuff because a lot of these big ones who are embedded with where we work right


anytime you ask somebody to go outside of where you work on a day-to-day basis that’s a bad that’s you know you’re


losing adoption just by asking me to click one step outside of whatever it is


so if you can come inside my email and live in there and help me write and everything else then I think a lot of


these other companies are going to be in real real trouble so that’s why I think it’s about looking and finding the operational efficiencies and the areas


that you can use this and then then looking for either a potential tool that can integrate or a platform that already


has it or whatever um yeah it’s interesting um you know I don’t know I mean I just


live in this world right here you know John say Office 365 and I’m like I know I’m technically older than John but he


acts older than me just wait man just wait it’s coming back


again and I agree with him I it’s interesting I think there’ll be two or


three leaders out there and then there will be a lot of Niche players right like there’s going to be somebody for


code development that that chat can’t you know someone’s just gonna get better


at it right um and they’ll probably build it off of chat GPT and you know and then just make


it accelerate and stuff like that um do you want actual tool names or do you want to know what the tools do like


I think actual tool names and what they do and like like brief yeah brief synopsis would be helpful so and so it


is a race right so I you know I think gong and chorus you know will do it uh


Outreach and sales Loft and um those places I think Atrium will do I


think atrium’s got real unique play uh there’s a new one you know like Atrium


and I’m an advisor for so I always like to let people know that um and then uh there’s a new one I’m an


advisor for called Wonder way coach and that’s the one that’s actually you’re gonna you know have your call recording


and it’ll give feedback to the rep coaching the rep like so that remote sales team piece where they can get some


level of feedback as opposed to taking a Gong call and having to listen to it and


do those things and I think the Integrations there will happen um that to me is that to me is like one


of the best ideas and I’m hoping I’m hoping those guys I’m an advisor so but


I’m hoping I’ve yet to see anybody who has that yet like I even asked John before I told him what it was that he


seen it’s like no I think the biggest thing people need to look out for if you’re thinking about Ai and any of


these tools is is it really AI or is it just aggregating a bunch of right because they’re all claiming they have


ai right and it’s like yeah I don’t know maybe you know you got a link right


um yeah sure if you can help me write an email that’s that’s ai-ish right


um you know but is it I mean I I guess it is you know so it’s and the funny thing


is you know it became public in November it got legs in February like in the


general public so to speak started to get the legs and now we’re here in May of 2023 and in three months it’ll change


again absolutely like it’s just Excel because it just accelerates right it’s Sky now like this thing’s just gonna


keep learning absolutely yeah this is gosh I’ve learned so much from both of


you in this um and I think I want to so I want to wrap with just one question


for each of you and uh because I want to be I want to be mindful of everyone’s time here but just tying it all together


here so it’s kind of like we’ve talked about ways in which this could go a dark path we’ve talked about some really cool


uses that you’re both seeing both for sdrs for entrepreneurs let’s talk about


bringing it home like how do we how do we continue to bring value right what does that look like


um you know John you talked about changing what value looks like Richard you’re obviously you’re focused on


Humanity of sales and I want to give you each just like a minute let’s let’s call it a minute in case you go a little over


but let’s call it a minute to talk about what you’re thinking about now what you’re coaching your clients to do now


before we we rap and tell people how to connect with you yeah you want me to go or yeah yeah yeah


um so I think the the key is to work on right now are and I know it sounds old


school but fundamentals so like we’ve lost we’ve over engineered the sales process over the past years we’ve looked


for the sign we’ve looked to solve the problem with technology and now it’s getting exponentially worse and the


problem is is that now that their clients don’t want to talk to us more and more and the Reps don’t have the


fundamentals to fall back on uh they’re in trouble right they don’t know how to have a conversation they don’t know how to have empathy they don’t have business


Acumen they don’t have genuine curiosity and that’s what I think we need to try to figure out a way to teach them I


think we you know I think tools like open Ai and chat EBT you can use to improve your business Acumen but you


can’t just ask it the question then regurgitate the answer like you ask a question because you’re curious I actually think you can use chat CPT to


teach curiosity right keep asking keep asking keep asking um so those are the three things that I


would that I’m encouraging might you know clients that I work with to focus on on his business Acumen curiosity and


emotional intelligence and being able to use these tools and actually show the


client how to use these tools most other clients are in the same exact spot as we are as far as you know chat as far as


all this AI stuff they have no idea what’s going on so bring ways that you can you can show them how to increase


their efficiencies by using these free tools even if it has nothing to do with what you’re selling them right that’s


like we got to start getting out of the realm of adding value just based on what we have to offer with our product and


services we need to open up about how we can add value in ways that is has nothing to do with us to show people


certain things because that’s what’s going to leave an impression if I can walk into a cro’s office and show me by


the way can I show you the research how I got what prompt I use to write that email to get your attention like can I


show you how to do that and by the way if you do business with me or not like just go ahead and have your team start playing around with it like that’s going


to leave a far better impression than telling you I’m the greatest sales trainer in the world and everybody’s in a leading provider of and all that crap


so I think that’s the way we got to start looking at it well I’m just making sure that I get a full two minutes like John did because it’s like a


presidential debate over here you let him go over so I expect the same


courtesy and this last 20 take us home Richard you’re using every two minutes my friend yeah


um of course we forgot the question again no um the I agree with you with John 100


about the EQ that that’s the piece and and you know in the training I do and and I know John does this too I I very


specifically talk about psychology and how humans make decisions because I think that’s a real important thing and


so much and I think we all know so much of what we teach is life skills as much as it is sales


skills like there’s nothing we teach that you can’t apply in life right other


than Maybe I don’t know how to send a well even a cold email like you could still how do I


communicate with somebody but um so the benefits I see around the humanity side is


um is that it should help us improve our EQ so let’s say I go ask chat EBT how do I


do this and then I go do it in a sales call well now my EQ just went up right like I can


use this to self-learn and then if I do it three or four more times or if I try something it doesn’t work after a couple


of times well what this didn’t work you know Bard or Chachi BT what other suggestions like so there’s and and that


that alone just the act of having Chachi PT I think helps with the Curiosity


piece that John’s talking about like it allows you a place to go be curious in a


different way and get a more human natural response and so for me it’s about that EQ piece that I that I see


it’s such a great piece that can subliminally get back to the humanity


piece right it’s not about like I said earlier it’s not about the cold email right like that’s where we are right now


go deeper and we go deeper into the sales funnel on the sales cycle it’s going to bring up the EQ and I


think that’s going to help and I think that’s going to help a lot of early career reps accelerate in ways that just


wasn’t didn’t work for us we just we didn’t have that opportunity right like I don’t you guys are still younger than


me you then either of you know what microfiche is like yeah


I haven’t heard of it there you go there it is I’ve heard of it


I’m going to tell my kids I’m gonna say hey guys go go use this fax machine they were like what the yeah


you’re in the Dewey Decimal System world my friends right guys this was awesome thank you so much


I know we’re like right at time um normally I would go on and on with Recaps and takeaways I want to honor


everybody’s time there’s a ton I got out of this I know everyone listening did as well too John tell everyone where they


can connect with you then Richard tell everyone where they can connect with you and we’ll uh we’ll wrap yeah just check out my new site it’s So


letter j b as in boy a r r o w everything there you get free content and all sorts of ways to connect with me


on Instagram on LinkedIn and everything else amazing yeah uh the Harris Consulting Group you got to put the uh


you can also find me at Richard Harris on LinkedIn I’m the one with a little goofy trademark uh you know


um so you can find me there and then here’s the part that’s always fun write this down


415-596-9149-415-596-9149 my real cell phone number John and Elyse, have it they could probably verify it I would


encourage you to text me to say hey I’m texting you from She Sells Radio so I will answer the call or respond but I


get a hold of me the funny thing is I put this out everywhere nobody ever calls like maybe one I think


that’s a fitting ending the Personal Touch to a really powerful conversation about AI so hey guys thank you both so


much amazing as always and to you my listener gosh go connect with John and Richard I promise like you will be so


you you your education levels will be insane for what you learn from them you’ll be inspired you’ll be motivated


you’ll be educated like we talked about today so go connect with them um thank you both again for being here.


Thank you to my listener for being a part of the community. We’ll see you in our next episode. Bye for now.


Elyse, thanks.

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