Building a Powerhouse Personal Brand on LinkedIn w/ Matthew Rolnick

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Welcome to She Sells Radio if you want to grow your brand and your visibility on social media which I know you do

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specifically LinkedIn which I know so many of my listeners do then you’re going to want to listen into today’s

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episode with my guest Matthew Rolnick who literally wrote the book on finding your voice and building your brand

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online so if you’re not yet familiar with Matthew he’s the VP of strategy and Innovation at yaymaker he’s a

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bestselling author of the book find your yay he’s a speaker he’s a udemy instructor with over

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130,000 students learning from him a Forbes contributing writer and he partners with his wife Sabine who we

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were actually just talking about in the pre-chat so we’ll talk about her a bit more today too um in their real estate

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business so Matthew I’m so glad to have you here today and I understand that what you’re going to tell us about and

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some of what you’re going to teach helped you secure I believe 60 corporate clients for uh for your company from

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LinkedIn is that right that is correct um and great talking to you D’s very excited and I love talking about

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LinkedIn and social selling and building your brand with it so absolutely absolutely yeah well we’re I’m excited

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and uh when you shared that with me when we we connected initially on LinkedIn which is how this came together so I

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think it’s always so powerful when you get to learn from someone who practices what they preach and uses uses it the

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right way um and I’m excited to learn more too because I found for us like LinkedIn is a huge place where we

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connect with clients and grow and I also know there’s so much I can learn and grow in and I want to um and I want to

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dive in with you today so I think before we get into that I would love if you could just share um what got you so

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passionate about helping people find their voice helping them build and create authentic content online like was

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this always something that you could have seen coming or is this something that developed in you over the years um

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well I’ll share at the age of 50 right when the pandemic hit I actually got

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furled from Groupon they fured a lot of managers and their sales professionals and

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um I for some reason I had a lot of peace of mind and I decided to utilize LinkedIn to share ideas to help

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businesses and help others and I was LE a little less worried about myself and I just started posting a lot and it

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started building more connections more people were sharing with me they wanted to hear more at the same time um a

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friend of mine Dan Herman started the company y and paint night and and I

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joined him and he really encouraged me to lean a lot into it where in the past

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when I worked for companies I was a little more concerned like am I aligned with the company brand will they

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encourage me does it need to get approved by their Communications or PR but he’s like Matt go for it share help

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it’s only going to help yay maker and everything we’re doing so I started posting a lot uh about corporate culture

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and team building events and it just started started snowballing where I started building new Partnerships and

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then started getting new clients from it so it really happened I’d say I 20 April

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2020 is when I really started started promoting more and doing more on LinkedIn yeah it’s so interesting when I

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I love um you know getting to connect with all sorts of people varied backgrounds here and uh the pandemic

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clarified a lot of things for a lot of people so it’s it’s interesting that that’s where some of this kind of spawned for you too um that opportunity

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that on the front end probably felt like a big challenge but then on the back end you took it and leveraged it so like

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first lesson right there right for everybody listening is there’s always the gold inside the thing that feels

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challenging um and then I think also for any of our listeners who are CEOs or who

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are leading organizations and sales teams I you said Dan was his name is

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that right yes how you said that he empowered you to just go out and post and share and um some of my background

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is in the personal branding space as well and that’s one of the biggest things that I saw holding companies back was like not encouraging their people to

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post trying to control and uh and and just micromanage every single thing

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their employees put out which it doesn’t work so I know we’re gonna talk more about that today too uh whether you’re

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an entrepreneur or you’re in sales um as a sales leader so so let’s talk about

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this I want to kind of lay the foundation here for if someone is to get

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more visible online and wanting to build their brand um but they they don’t feel

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like they’ve really found their voice yet because I know that’s something that you talk about in your book find your yay and you help people do what is our

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voice online how do we find it how do we figure out what it is like what is there a process is it more just iterative

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trial and error what does that look like so it’s interesting I checked a post I believe you did today and it was for 10

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things women should do to elev at their sales and one of them was what are your

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natural strengths um and you also talked about challenges and setbacks and I

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thought that was important too but anyway I I think we all know what we have personal interests or strengths in

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and I feel like that is an indicator potentially of some of our voice um I do

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like asking CEOs leaders all professionals if you could do one Ted

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Talk what would that be on anything you want open slate and um I

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feel like if somebody can think about or answer that that can help them think about what’s really most important to

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them so I feel like if you can really align personally and professionally what your real message is that can give you

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an indicator on what the kind of the perfect Bullseye is but whatever industry you’re in or whatever role you

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have or if you think you have a per a strength I think that helps you kind of shape your voice and so if you’re it

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doesn’t doesn’t matter the industry whether you’re in Tech whether you’re web development accounting fashion you

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know if you’re in that industry you can start sharing some things that you’re seeing that you find interesting and if

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you’re not necessarily comfortable of saying here’s my all my ideas you might just find an article that you find

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interesting or somebody else’s post and I’d say a step one is saying I saw this on LinkedIn I thought this was

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interesting because of ab or C uh ab and C so anyway I think that’s a step on finding your voice and I think I believe

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in a lot of putting things out there see what resonates with people resonates with yourself but I’d start with your

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industry your role and any personal interest that you have I also believe

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there’s Hobbies people have so I have friends that love pickle ball and they tie pickle ball into lessons with um

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what’s going on in business I mean you can take almost any sport or hobby that you’re personal and and how you relate

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that professionally and that’s something that’s authentic and connects people to you and you give like insights and

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lessons that way so what if somebody is they’re like okay if I could give a TED Talk it would

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be about blank it would be about this thing they they get clarity on it but

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they don’t see how it ties back to what they’re doing in business is it are you saying is it like do something that’s

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totally unrelated to your business or you got to find the tie in and if so I think I know your answer is going to be

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because I know how I approach it but I’m curious to hear what you say how do we find the tie in is there are there

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questions we can ask or is there like a lens we can frame it through I’d love if you could give a little bit of thought

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on that so just to share I have a little ADHD where I try to connect a lot of

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dots that maybe others don’t but I always like to align things personally and professionally um but you know

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there’s some people it’s a really maybe a hot button they just how they want to be communicated it’s just very important

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to be transparent or be fully honest or you know maybe somebody it’s just so important they love being creative I’ll

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say I mean it’s different for everybody I mean for me I talk a lot about

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relationships and to me that’s like everything I mean the most important thing in life besides maybe health and

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other I mean I think relationships are so important with yourself with friends with colleagues with others and so I

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talk a lot about that and I and I use that to tie in a lot of my content um

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but I talk about like what’s important for me when it comes to communication staying in touch with people and I I try

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to encourage people to always be Forward Thinking and helping others not always

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expecting as much in return but it’s like you need to Foster and develop those relationships but um it it’s not a

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clearcut everybody has a different calling a different voice I mean there’s some things I’d say that’s common sense

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I mean the most basic is hey this is my job this is my company this is what I like I can start with you know when it

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comes to selling um for example I like talking to people that have similar

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interests as me and so I’ll connect with people that went to you know whether similar education whether it’s a similar

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sport whether it’s a similar hobby I find I can connect people that way I can send outbound messages that way I find a

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connection that way maybe that’s something you can start with got it I love that I find there’s always a tie in

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and it’s just like what approach are you going to take and and being able to think creatively in that way too so you

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mentioned that so you get furloughed um your starting over essentially right

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building your brand and so you’re working with a business partner who says hey just go post and you said I started

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posting you use the word aggressively but like you were deliberate you were intentional I’d love if you could share

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a little bit more about like specifically what that looks like for you in terms of what you post on

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LinkedIn so do you have something where like every day you do this type of thing

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or do you do a video post on one day and a written post on another is it more organic I think for someone who’s

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looking to okay they’re starting to find their voice they’re they’re trying things out they’re sharing but they need some sort

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of structure or framework to it um what would you say to them so I’ve got a few

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things to say one is I think you got to be careful not to make it too much about yourself you want to make it about others so always providing value and

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again I have to be careful on that because I always have something I want to share promote or sell um so and then

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another thing I do think there’s advantages and I know people content creators that have

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so you know Monday might be a motivational quote Wednesday might be a poll Thursday might be a video Friday

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might be um a little more fun and I’ve and I’ve done some things I mean I’d say

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I’m a little more organic what inspires me um and now and I started more just posting more text then I started doing

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more images now I do more polls and video but I feel like you have to feel

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what’s more natural to you now for me so like for yay maker we do corporate team

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building events so we do paint nights and mixies and speakers and all these things but I realize I just can’t keep

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posting about hey do this event do this so I thought more broadly on what our

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company as a solution we’re helping increase Employee Engagement we’re uh

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improving corporate culture so I started sharing wanted to be more of a thought

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leader on those topics so that’s when like in Forbes I’ll I’ll talk about corporate culture and and I’ll also I’ll

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talk about Employee Engagement and then maybe 10 to 15% of my posts are a little

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more hard-hitting about hey this is what like a yay maker event but for the most part I want to Pro provide value to

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others and I don’t want to make it just about what I what my goals are I’ll share free content or advice like you

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know you can do um um you can do a talent show and you can do that virtually or in person that’s a free way

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of utilizing your employees to get more involved and improve roof culture things like that I mean I talk about you know

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doing a you know I do a lot of dad jokes and uh you know but before a meeting it can be an icebreaker and it can be a

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little bit of a culture Builder get people a little more engaged or things like that but that’s things I like to talk about um that um I’ll share

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something else that’s really um benefited me my company I feel like

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others is just like you’re doing with me I really enjoy interviewing others and

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getting content and thought leadership from others so um even if there’s companies that I’d love to work with

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that really aren’t interested in my product or service I might say hey can I talk to you about corporate culture and

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I’ll interview I’ll ask you five six questions I’ll do it through zoom and on LinkedIn and I find that there’s

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multiple benefits from that one is I get some great content um two I I feel like

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I strengthen the relationship of the the person I talk to and then I noticed um a

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lot of people from that company will start in engaging in that content and

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then often and again sometimes um they’ll reach back afterwards and they’re like how can I work with you

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more or and so uh without even me asking just putting out more content shining

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the light more on others it has organically driven a lot of business for us yeah AB it’s the power of platform

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right always it’s I I I go on a lot of interviews my favorite thing is getting

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to interview ask questions it’s like I already I already know about myself I want to find out about other people and

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to your point there’s all of those other things that can happen with that too what if somebody’s listening and we I would say with our listeners and I

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haven’t done like a poll but I would say when I look at our client base it’s probably 60 to 70% entrepreneur 30 to

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40% corporate give or take but I want to take a moment for those who are

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listening who are in corporate sales who are like it would be brilliant to launch a LinkedIn live series and interview my

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target clients and I want to post more but they’re they’re bumping up against

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either regulations or compliance or a lot of restrictions around what they can

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and can’t post do you have any advice is it like sorry you got to find another way or is there a way you can approach

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your leadership like what what would you say to someone because we’ve got clients and members actively in our community

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who are doing this now in their company and it’s like it’s working but they had to get Buy in from leadership so how

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would you approach that so I guess a couple folds I mean one is I’m always encouraging CEOs and leaders and HR

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departments to encourage employees to post more on on LinkedIn I mean to to to

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embrace it uh you know obviously there’s certain topics you know anything very

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charged political religion things like that encourage employees to stay away from so add add some bumpers but in

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general encourage employees too now if you’re an employee or you’re sales

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professional you’re like you have this ambition to post more and things like that yeah I think just reaching out to

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who up to you report to to say hey I’m looking at doing this share with them your content or ideas I I I’d like to

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believe more and more companies are embracing that or things like that it you know if a company is really got

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handcuffing people to say hey we do not want you to post anything unless it comes from our Communications Department

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then it gets extra challenging um you know then I’m a Believer in more engaging in other people’s content and

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you can add your content Contex so like one of uh one of the highest engagement

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responses I had with Gary vaynerchuk he’s obviously a very uh strong leader

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thought leader on LinkedIn very much I once posted you know some context on one

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of his posts and next thing you know is I saw somebody else says here’s my like five favorite responses from Gary Vayner

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highlighted me and I had some other people reaching out to me or things like that so you know hopefully you can find

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a way and again I think it’s just a quick business case um to just say hey this is what I’m doing I also think too

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is if as long as you’re promoting the business most people that I know that are posting things on LinkedIn and it’s

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showing their company in a good light and themselves they’re not getting pushed back and usually worst case

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scenario would be a company be like hey let me know this beforehand and again have to be very careful professionally

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how to share that with somebody but in general if you use good judgment I think most of the time it’s applauded um and

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like there’s a woman uh Drew beerworth who uh uh with this company carbin who

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we talk pronoun she goes by she and they and it was something that I was very interested in and C but her company very

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much embraced her and I interviewed her and things like and it was just but again a lot of even the company liked it

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or things like that so I feel like most people will be should be pleasantly surprised of a company encourage because

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it’s free marketing too for that company yeah absolutely and I think we’ve we’ve come a long way I started digital

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marketing in like I don’t know like 08 like it’s so it’s like it’s come a long way since then um and I’m just we’ve got

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a lot of listeners in finance or Insurance where they’re working with compliance so I think one of the things that you shared which I like is there’s

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always a way there’s always a work around even if it’s commenting and engaging on other people’s content there’s a way to do it and build build

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thought leadership so one of the other things I want to ask you about Matthew because you did this and I was really um

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I appreciated it because I send a lot of voice notes I don’t get a lot back but you reached out and you introduced yourself to me on LinkedIn with a voice

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note and it was super personable and friendly and um it’s like little stuff

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like that that just stands out so with LinkedIn or social media in general

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there’s obviously the marketing aspect so putting out the content but then there’s also how do you convert and I’m

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a saleswoman at heart I I I love marketing but I love selling even more

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and I know you said that you used your own LinkedIn content to generate 60 corporate leads for yay maker and I

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forget if there was a time frame on that but it was like I remember it was like an impressive amount of leads and a short amount of time yeah really within

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the first year I mean is really when the bulk of things I mean it was the time when uh again when the pandemic

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companies were struggling what to do to connect I was talking a lot about engaging employees and it was important

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and I was just getting calls after calls messages on LinkedIn saying boy I love

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what you said and I’d love to work with you so um so most of them were then I’m still getting several now but most of

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them were I’d say within the first 12 months and again what you said about the

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the LinkedIn voice message that’s just a free feature on someone’s mobile um I’m somebody I’ve got over 15,000 followers

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on LinkedIn and most I’m connected to to to me I take a lot of pride in nurturing those most people I’m connected I try to

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leave a message at least once a year a lot of people you know once every few months and I I do find I like to share

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as a tip I say this is a way to kind of stand out or break through I find a little more personalized or engaging and

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uh I do a lot of LinkedIn messages if I see something an article um I’ll often

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forwarded to people in my LinkedIn Network who I might not be that close to or talk to just saying hey I thought you might find this interesting and I’ll do

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a lot of intros on LinkedIn like somebody might have a podcast somebody might be a a you know for somebody like

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yourself there might be an amazing female uh leader salesperson that has just a a really strong voice and a

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message I might just be like hey I think you two should connect but I am I love being a Matchmaker I love being a super

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connector and I just push that out um I don’t and I find um I do it because I

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like to help people but some people there’s a reciproc proy where they want to help back and for every 20 messages

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or intros I do I usually find one or two come back and so I just love doing that

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yeah I love that I love that that’s um so I took down a note there too because

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that’s so interesting like 15,000 connections and you’re trying to touch a lot of them you know at least once a

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year which is powerful um we could go down a whole rabbit hole with that I I

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don’t think we will but one of the things that I was curious about so with these you you start off the company

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you’ve got 60 so it wasn’t leads it was clients 60 new corporate clients within the first year of doing this so I just

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want everyone listening to think about that’s what five a month if we average it out like what would five new clients

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a month or five additional clients a month do for your bottom line how did you do that was that a combination of

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posting and then you were reaching out to people in DMS or was it literally just your posting and they’re like hey

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Matthew we love that which is I mean it’s like everyone’s dream is they just have an inbox full of leads but I feel

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like there’s probably some Outreach on your part too like tell us a little bit about what that look like so it is a

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combination it was a combination of putting out content it was letting people making myself very accessible or available if you have any questions let

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me know um it was me just trying to help other people there’s a lot of people that were looking for opportunities or

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jobs that I would make sure I’d reach out I always think it’s important to reach out people when they’re having challenging times later when they became

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leaders new positions or companies they reach out to me um in wanting to do team building events um I also really

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encourage uh testimonials so um and that’s been really powerful so uh often

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after an event or something like that I’ll ask somebody if they’re comfortable you know writing a few things or doing a

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testimonial and if they’re if they just write me a few words then I can share it with our you know marketing or put it

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together and as a testimonial I find those when people started seeing more and more more sea Lev High VP levels

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working with us um and and these were a lot of people would be in my network um

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that was really influenced like I I worked for Groupon for almost uh eight years and I would say a high percentage

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of those were in my group on network working now for other companies um but when they see some very high level

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people working with me or working with the aaker and then they shout out that hey we had the best murder mystery

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experience or things like that it was awesome AB n c um and they’d post it and I’d reshare it um that would that really

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helped uh I’d say be a catalyst for more leads because they’re like oh if that so I’m a real believer in those third-party

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examples those testimonials and getting others to also shout you out it’s I mean I’m a self-promoter but when other

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people can shout out the things you’re working on I think that’s I I think that is really strong and um you know I I

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want interviewed uh Joey nevka he’s the VP of sales and operations I believe both of of house and it was amazing

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because I interviewed him he shared some content on how to be a successful leader

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he had uh he was really organized with it he had three his three C’s on building a great strategy and he talked

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about coordination and communication and uh and I got to remember what the third SE was but again

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but basically um and after actually in the interiew he shouted out yay maker and and basically like hey um it was um

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you know we had a great team building experience thank you and again he had just some really strong content um he

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was very well respected within Groupon within other leaders other companies and how so I’ve like repurpose some of his

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content into little 60c Clips or things like that and reposts but I find the the

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the the power of your network and other people’s network uh can really help um

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improve your thought leadership credibility but also help bring in new sales yeah okay that makes a ton of

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sense and it’s so I wanted to ask you I’ve got probably two final questions and one of them was about thought

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leadership and when you mentioned uh the three C’s I thought that’s ex I mean it’s that’s thought leadership right so

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um my friends Rory and AJ over at Brand Builders Group who by the way I should introduce you to if you’re not familiar with them yet um it’d be a great contact

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but I talk about thought leadership is how are you forwarding the message of what’s already been said so for someone

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who’s building their brand and they don’t want to just like generate leads but they also want to truly leave a

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legacy and build a a name and change maybe the thinking in a in a space and

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be seen as a thought leader how do you know when you’re there like can can you be a thought leader right away just by

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sharing content do you need to come up with your own methodology and Frameworks like guess I’d love to hear your take on

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it and how we know when we are when we’re truly thought leaders so I do think it’s an evolving

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evergo evolving journey I mean there are people who are much stronger thought leaders than myself I’ve kind of

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self-proclaimed I’m a thought leader in um a few lanes um I was honored uh

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LinkedIn uh badge me as a top entrepreneurship voice so that kind of felt more validity but I um so that that

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felt good but I think realistically it’s you know when you get others asking for your advice I mean that that to me is I

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mean that then you’re now being more more of a thought leadership I mean when I have friends and family um now asking

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me for my advice on hey what should I do on LinkedIn or how should I brand myself or I’m thinking about my first article I

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mean to me it’s baby steps but I mean once your people are asking you for advice I feel like now you’re at least a

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a micro thought leader so um you know so I mean there’s I’m sure there’s different measures or exact things but I

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mean I would say if you’re getting you know at least you know a couple times a month someone asking you for advice

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advice I mean you’re on your way but again just keep just like working out the more you put into it you’re going to

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see the results it’s you know after three weeks you might not see many results but after three months six months a year two years you’re going to

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see the fruits of your labor and I think the same thing’s true with thought leadership um and then for me also when

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I get asked to be on more podcast or I asked to contribute or collaborate with an article or asked to be on a board

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those are indicators to me that my content’s working um and that people are

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seeing me more as a thought leader yeah well and I think what you shared there too at the end about think about it like

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working out is so important um when so I I know uh AJ and Rory from I worked with

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them at at their company brand builders for um some time and have a lot of respect for them and we would coach people to launch podcasts and so Rory’s

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advice to people was always don’t look at your numbers for a year like don’t even look at the downloads for a year

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and I think that’s it sounds like what you’re saying too and I know for me if I post something and then I get too caught

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up in what are the numbers and who likes it and who doesn’t I mean number one there’s so many people who see your

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things that will never comment they’ll never like but you’re you’re dripping on them and you’re influencing them and

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over time eventually some of them are going to come forward and say hey I’d love your help I’d love your service and

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you just you never know right it’s like that law of reciprocity um and it it’s a slow build and I think get that like be

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in it for the long run yeah I have to sh one thing there was once I was at a wedding and this was I want to say about

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8 10 months ago and I was sitting next to someone who I used to work with it was that group when he was a manager and now he’s like a VP of another company

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and he shared oh yeah we did an event with you and it was amazing he’s never engaged in any of my content never like

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commented that I remember anything or that or very rarely and I had no idea but it was the influence of me putting

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content out there and him seeing others and the combination of things that he just reached out or went on our site and

27:56

and booked an event and that was something I didn’t even know so there I mean literally it’s probably a 100 times

28:02

as many people are seeing your content than engaging your content if you get a 1% engagement that’s probably pretty good 2% probably great but I’m just

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saying so realize 50 to 100 times as many people are seeing it and you just never know and sometimes it just takes

28:14

that one I had one person reach out to me and we did almost a seven figure uh

28:20

partnership deal because of just staying in close connected and he’s singing me on LinkedIn amazing I love that so much

28:27

yeah you literally never know um Bren and bashard has this great quote he says never underestimate the value of one and

28:34

I think that’s so important to remember with social because if we judge it based

28:40

on who’s responding and how are first of all I think that’s a a fast track to not being willing to show up and position

28:46

yourself as a thought leader because you’re too concerned about what other people think which is not thought leadership in my opinion um and then two

28:53

you’ll stop and you don’t realize what’s going on behind the scenes and who you could be impacting so it’s so powerful I

29:00

want to ask so I I shared this with you in the pre-chat um before we recorded when I have men on the show I love asking about the women in their lives

29:06

and I know you’ve got a a wife who’s a real estate Powerhouse and she’s a professor like very well educated um

29:13

from what you shared and and so I’d love to hear from you Matthew for uh Sabine right I think is her name what is what

29:19

would you say is the number one life lesson that you’ve learned from

29:25

Sabine wow the number one life lesson I’ve learned from be I mean you know

29:30

passion makes a big difference I mean if you’re if you literally jump into what

29:35

you’re doing with passion and with the goal to really help people if that’s really you’re not a salesperson you are

29:43

really there as a support and a consultant if that’s really your mind frame I think that goes a long way I

29:50

mean so yeah you’re right my wife you know I love talking and bragging about her she went Yale undergrad got her PhD

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in Psychology had some health challenges had to leave the whole educational but

30:03

but then after a few years break she got into real estate and I see her mind

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frame she doesn’t look at I mean it’s not about the dollars she treats whether someone’s buying a $100,000 condo or a

30:15

$3 million property or so this the same way like she like their family and and

30:22

and she connects with people so I always talk about connection but if you’re really if people know that you care

30:27

about them that I I feel like that may be one of the most important things so with uh with Sabine I mean she lives

30:34

breathes and see it she loves helping people and I feel like that has been instrumental in her success yeah that’s

30:41

so good that’s there’s so many lessons there from what you shared and I think that’s at the end of the day the bottom

30:47

line for us in sales or entrepreneurs is just care about people treat everyone

30:53

right it’s very best you can and um and it always comes back so thank you so

30:58

much for this this was so fun yeah I’d love if you could share Matthew where can people connect with

31:04

you so if you want to share your LinkedIn um I know people can get your book as well on Amazon or I’m assuming other books I where people can go yeah

31:11

so yeah I always like to promote my book find your yay but that’s on Amazon you can get that uh um my email is uh M

31:19

rollneck my first initial last name at ym maker.com but really my preference is

31:24

people connect with me on LinkedIn so they can find me on LinkedIn Matthew rck and um and yeah as I said I love

31:31

connecting with people and trying to find new opportunities collaborations and uh I make myself fairly accessible

31:37

so amazing thank you so much so yeah if you’re listening go connect with Matthew on LinkedIn let him know you heard him

31:43

here on the show and uh thanks again this was really really fun and I’m I’m thinking in a bigger way about our

31:49

content too that we share so I really appreciate it well thanks Elise I look forward to staying in touch and collaborating with you as well and

31:55

wishing you the best thank you you so much all right my listener go connect with Matthew online go check out his

32:02

book find your yay will’ll uh link everything here in the show notes as always I’m so grateful for you being a

32:07

part of the shells Community I’ll see you on our next episode bye for now